khechari snip creates snoring?

[Richard]

Hi John I have been snipping on and off for some time now but I haven't got further than stage one yet and I am not desperate as stage one is very pleasant

 I agree with Christi it is fantastic but it will only work if you already have some ecstatic conductivity, as long as you feel those waves of pleasant energy in your body especially outside of you practices you have enough.

In my case it definitely changes my meditation…difficult to explain how but it is different and deeper for sure, In Pranayama the sensations in the spine are sharper and more defined. Everybody is different so different people will tell you different things this is just my personal experience hope it helps.

[Lookatmynavelnow]

quote:Originally posted by Christi

no (I am still in stage one) and yes, it is fantastic.

... if someone does not already have an ecstatic body, and they are snipping away thinking "this is going to be fantastic" then they could well be snipping in vain.

...I snipped because I trusted Yogani. Christi

Let me get this straight. You snipped in order to get to stage one?

[Shanti]

I can get into stage 3.. but I am generally in stage 2 during my pranayama and meditation.. and also during various times of the day.

Would I do it again? Yes absolutely.. in a heartbeat.. it is such an easy practice with so much to add esp. with respect to quietening the mind and increasing the energy levels.. When I touch the upper wall of the nasopharynx, it feels like a circuit is complete like a switch is flipped and there is a beautiful flow of energy and a feeling of bliss.. When done in meditation.. or actually during the day too.. it quietens the mind and helps me get present.

PS: Thanks for asking this LAMNN.. I had kinda taken this practice so much for granted.. when you experience something new.. it's something huge and talked about a lot.. but then you settle into the practice.. the initial woo-hoo dies down and you enjoy the benefits. At first the bliss and ecstasy are huge.. then it becomes a part of you and you don't think about it anymore. It's true with everything we do, not just yoga.. isn't it? Good to have a reality check every now and then.

[Thokar]

Hi Lookat,

I did perform a few very small snips in the beginning, but to be honest I think my tongue was already so close to reaching stage 2 it didn't take much at all... After reaching stage 2 for the first time I never cut again nor have I needed to, the tongue reached stage 3 after stage 2 in a matter of weeks, stage 4 after a couple months... For normal practice I almost always use stage 3 with the tip of the tongue touching up under the indentation at the roof of the palatal cavity directly under the pituitary gland... My practice is somewhat different from ayps, where I practice large ammounts of kriya (ayp spinal breathing) using the kechari mudra the entire time.. All in all the difference in practice has been immense, progress seems to come much easier and without effort while using kechari during kriya practice.. hope this answers any questions you had..

[insideout]

I started snipping about 3 weeks ago, snipping once or twice a week.  I still can't reach stage 2 but I can shove my tongue behind and up with my fingers, unfortunately it pops out without manual assistance.  More like kechari 1.5.

[x.j.]

Hi Again,
I am interested to hear from so many people who have gotten their tongue to enter the upper pharynx and their positive reports of pleasurable experiences.
So we have heard from many people who have had very positive experiences at stage 2 or beyond stage 2. And some who just place their tongue on the roof of the mouth at the junction of the hard and soft palates and for those there are also reports of pleasurable sensation as well.
On the other hand of our "survey" we have heard from people who have tried to free up their tongue and not succeeded.

The third group of the "survey",... if there is a third group, i.e. those who are into kechari stage 2 and find it not fantastic,...they  have yet to answer on this thread. They could be very few, or they could be many and just not writing in. Until those folks tell us about it, we will not be able to say whether the majority of people with a mobilized tongue are all getting the fantastic, or not getting the fantastic.  

John

[Christi]

Hi LAMNN,
 

quote:quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Christi

no (I am still in stage one) and yes, it is fantastic.

... if someone does not already have an ecstatic body, and they are snipping away thinking "this is going to be fantastic" then they could well be snipping in vain.

...I snipped because I trusted Yogani. Christi

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Let me get this straight. You snipped in order to get to stage one?

Yes, that's right. When I started I could not reach the place between the hard and soft palate (everyone's tongue is different ). It took quite a lot of snipping (and time) to get that far. Now I can get my tongue to a place behind the soft palate, where it is pushing upwards and there is nothing above it. But I have not found the septum yet. So I practice in stage one.

As Yogani says, the roots of the secret spot come down to meet the top of the mouth between the hard and soft palate. When the body is filled with ecstasy (or is even experiencing the beginnings of ecstatic conductivity) this becomes an important practice for activating the higher neurobiology. I believe kechari has played an important part in transforming the biology of my body, has accelerated the production of soma, and ojas, and expanded the radiance of love outward (and upward).

I have also experienced it affecting the flow of the kundalini through the crown, and the opening of the third eye. This advances entry into samadhi as Kirtanman mentioned, and makes samadhi more stable both during and outside of practices.

 Oh yeah... and it feels good.... really good .

Christi

[Christi]

Hi John

 

quote:The third group of the "survey",... if there is a third group, i.e. those who are into kechari stage 2 and find it not fantastic,...they have yet to answer on this thread. They could be very few, or they could be many and just not writing in. Until those folks tell us about it, we will not be able to say whether the majority of people with a mobilized tongue are all getting the fantastic, or not getting the fantastic.

There could be a fourth group... those who are in any stage of kechari and who are so merged with God that the very idea of reading something on a computer would seem bizar in the extreme.

Christi

p.s. In the main lessons Yogani does say that Doctors probably won't be into it.

[x.j.]

Hi Christi,
 But I am not opposed to the frenulum cutting, but rather just interested in gathering the information from participants. It's valuable for me and I bet others to know whether doing a series of clippings of the frenulum is all that worth while before we embark on this because it's a little bit of trouble for us unclipped folks to cut the frenulum  to get the tongue mobility for stage 2.
You know it doesn't hurt to question something like this.  
It helps us all to question.  I kind of gave up on taking things on "blind faith" a long time ago when I left the Catholic Church about the time I left home for college. So all I'm saying is:
1) It's always a good idea to question authority, no matter how revered the person is.
2) If stage 2 is fantastic, many of us will want to do this procedure. It's no big deal really.
3) I don't think doctors would be opposed to doing a clipping of the frenulum if asked, as long as you just explain the reasoning.  And most doctors are here to be of service, and are very accomodating.   I would do it for anyone who asked me.  Check with your local doctor or call an Otolaryngologist(Ear, Nose, Throat) ENT specialist directly, and I bet you'd be pleasantly surprised at how agreeable everything would be, provided you explained your yoga and predicament.  

4) Lastly,... I bet that one can go all the way to become fully realized just fine with or without khechari. And that we can become fully realized in this one life if we are serious and determined.
Many of us here share that view.
John
P.S. I promise no further changes or editing in this message. I only edit to try to say something the most usefully possible because I realize many people will be reading these. I guess I could write these posts out by hand and wait til I have a more polished version first. Please bear with me.

[x.j.]

One other comment about Christi's statement of there being a group of yogins being "so merged with God that the very idea of reading something on the computer would seem bizar(sp) in the extreme".... presumably like still read posts" at AYP.

uh...don't think so. Merged-with-God-folks would be more interested in helping others and sharing any possible information that could be of service to them. The merged group would be very much into connectivity and service.
John

[Thokar]

Hi John,

I'd have to disagree with your statement about the 4th group christi was talking about..I know from personal experience that at times when you're really immersed in practice or the after-effect results of the practice the intoxication can be so great that you are very much unable to think about human and mundane things... these states generally don't go on for days but I'm pretty sure most out there that have been practicing for some time have experienced this to a degree (which is probably what made christi think about adding that line about them)
I'm very much convinced that most advanced beings on this earth are probably living more of a withdrawn life instead of being out in the world trying to save and help everyone they come across..

[x.j.]

Whatever. Who cares? Being advanced spiritually isn't quantifiable and it isn't a contest. Whether the ascetic, drunken upon the nectar of the divine in a cave is the most advanced woman on the planet or the Mother Theresa of Calcutta, totally committed in her devotion to suffering humanity, is more advanced,...who can say? Besides, who cares?
John

[david_obsidian]

For the purposes of the survey,  I'm in 'stage 3', and I have to say it's been fantastic, particularly getting into 'stage 2' and the transition from stage 2 to stage 3.

John, for sure, we don't have enough data here to make any conclusions about what the fruits of Kechari will be, or would be, for a randomly chosen person.

We could ask a number of questions about kechari in terms of cause-and-effect, and hypothetically, do a number of different studies to determine the answer.  

1. What are the probable fruits of advanced kechari for a randomly-chosen person?
2. What are the probable fruits of advanced kechari for a randomly-chosen person already enjoying considerable fruits of 'Advanced Yoga'?
3. What are the probable fruits of advanced kechari for a randomly-chosen person already enjoying considerable fruits of 'Advanced Yoga' and who feels very ready and motivated to do 'Advanced Kechari'.

It isn't practical to do all of the studies actually (you cannot randomly choose people and get them to do kechari!),  but in principal, there are results for such studies.  My reason for considering them is to expose some of the principles of 'applicability' and how it would affect results.  My expectation is that as you go down the list, the probable yield gets considerably higher -- that is to say, if you are highly motivated for kechari, it might suggest better chances of good fruits from it.

Another interesting question is:

What are the probable fruits of advanced kechari for a randomly-chosen person, not already enjoying considerable fruits of 'Advanced Yoga' but who feels very ready and motivated to do 'Advanced Kechari'.

I can say I have no idea of the answer to that question.  Maybe I'll have a better sense of the answer some time.  I'd love to know the answer to it because then I could recommend kechari more generally.

I agree with you that kechari is not essential for enlightenment. I don't know, in fact, of anyone who believes it is.  But it's another great tool in the toolbox,  as a number of the yogis here will attest.  In my case, it's been a real power-tool. But we aren't a sect of Kechari-ites or anything who think everyone has to be into kechari.

[Christi]

Hi John,

quote:Whatever. Who cares? Being advanced spiritually isn't quantifiable and it isn't a contest. Whether the ascetic, drunken upon the nectar of the divine in a cave is the most advanced woman on the planet or the Mother Theresa of Calcutta, totally committed in her devotion to suffering humanity, is more advanced,...who can say? Besides, who cares?
John

It was kind of a joke about the fourth group... based on the popular idea about enlightenment, that you just end up kind of permanently blissed out, seeing God everywhere, dispassionate, perfectly equanamous, and free from all desires. So you wouldn't want, or need to do very much, including turning a computer on or replying to an online questionare!

Actually it does have some relevance, and we should care a little, because it does seem to be a stage on the path that many go through, and that some get stuck in. The Buddha is said to have spent six weeks after his enlightenment simply "enjoying the peace of nirvana" sitting under his tree. It was only after that that he engaged with humanity again in order to be of service to suffering mankind. It was as if his bliss and peace expanded into compassion, and he went into service. This pattern seems to be fairly common, and some don't reach the service/ compassion stage. Yogani calls this variously the outpouring of divine love or stillness in action, and he says it comes after, and as a result of the ecstatic bliss stage. He wrote about the role of the saint after the involuted silent blissed out stage here in the forum once, but I can't find the post. Anyone?

As for doctors performing this (very minor) operation, I can't see any reason why many wouldn't be up for it. After all, there is such a thing as cosmetic surgery. This kind of thing is in fact a very minor operation, in quite an insensitive part of the mouth, and the potential benefits are incredible. Good for you for offering your services.

Christi

[bewell]

quote:
So we have heard from many people who have had very positive experiences at stage 2 or beyond stage 2.

I've been neglecting my kechari practice.  When I got a note from John informing me of this survey, I decided to go into stage 2 kechari and wow, thanks the nudge John.  Energetically, it is the greatest mudra I know; and from what Yogani says, it may be the greatest mudra period.  Not only does it boost prana, it is a more balanced, steady, soft prana.  I mean "soft" in the sense that people talk about soft light.  It is not harsh.  And it clearly gives a feeling of inner space, inner spaciousness, and a floaty feel, without being ungrounded.

I don't care for the word fantastic.  Sounds too much like fantasy.  I'd call it wonderful.