khechari snip creates snoring?

[x.j.]

sorry

[Lookatmynavelnow]

quote:Originally posted by david_obsidian

Try possibly putting your objections into a cost-benefit-risk analysis:  What is the cost of snipping?  What are the risks?  What are the benefits?  

Friend, you did snip, didnt you? May I then ask you what your pre-snipping cost-benefit-risk analysis projected, and what was the actual outcome? Would you do it again knowing what you know now?

[Lookatmynavelnow]

quote:Originally posted by Kirtanman

The practice of Khechari Mudra has contributed to benefits infinitely - and I use that term quite literally - beyond what I was capable of imagining, anticipating and hoping even existed, or was possible ... to orders of magnitude so vast, that words literally do not have the ability to describe.

As I write this post, I literally sit here with tears of joy in my eyes, and a loopy grin on my face,

I guess if this is a popular vote, your answer is ”yes”. How many percent of the snippers agree? Well, as they say, one with God is a majority. On the other hand…
I sense certain maturity from you post. Could it be that your positive experiences of snipping have more to do with that then the actual mudra? Is less yogic yogis predestined to snip in vain?

[Lookatmynavelnow]

quote:Originally posted by John C

I am ... taking the devils advocate position.

... I cannot see that hurting oneself, cutting oneself with a sharp object, can lead to anything good happening.

...Spiritual materialism is the term that comes to mind.

Cutting the frenulum of the tongue seems like a vaguely ignorant way to pursue spiritual culture.  Better living through surgery.

I enjoy exchanging arguments with the Devils advocate, it is a spiritual exercise in some traditions in order to sharpen you understanding and you arguments for your position.

Anyhow, one might argue that having someone operating on your appendix and saving your life do have a significant effect on your spiritual evolution in the flesh (in this incarnation). Also, to use prescribed drugs for dealing with hemophilia (disease by birth that messes with the ability of the blood to clog) may keep you alive until you become enlightened. The road to enlightenment is paved with change – not only spiritual but also mental, emotional and physical change. To attain yoga is to change from the present situation of un-yoga by altering your neuro-physical, mental etc etc vehicles. These are examples of how manipulation of the physical body can have positive effects on the spiritual development.
 
I guess one can polish the aura in order to get popular with the opposite sex, and that would be what you call “Spiritual materialism”. To polish ones aura to get popular with God could then be called “Spiritual spirituality”?

In stating these arguments I am simply taking the position of the saint-to-be advocate. I might be in error.

[Lookatmynavelnow]

quote:Originally posted by YogaPat

Hey LAMNN

I don't think so. I've snipped mine about as much as you can - so far so good!

    P

Care to comment about your experience? Was the snipping beneficial to your spiritual evolution in some way?

[x.j.]

Come on you guys, eveybody who got to stage 2, please come forward and tell us yes or no to the lady's question.

[Scott]

Contrary to popular belief - I have never snipped.  Just thought I should clear that up.  I got to stage 3 by just trying and trying for a few months.

To get your tongue back into the nasal cavity - the thing that worked best for me was breathing out the mouth really fast kind of saying "ha".  If you look at the roof of your mouth in the mirror when you do this, you'll see that the soft part in back comes down...this creates a huge opening which your tongue can easily fit up into.

Next, to reach stage 2, the trick is thrusting forward with the tongue and relaxing your mouth and face.  Just keep doing it and trying it, and eventually it'll happen.  Stage 3 is basically the same.  Just reaching forward and up...when you've hit stage 2, stage 3 is just a bit above.

I discontinued my practice of kechari probably half a year ago or maybe more.  Maybe I will get back into it, and if I do I will take up snipping to reach full kechari.  It's a very worthwhile practice, even at stage 2.  Worth snipping...which isn't as drastic as it seems.  "Milking" or pulling the tongue is also worth doing to help you reach further up.

Good luck.

[Black Rebel Radio]

Hey Scott! If you don't mind...why did you stop the practice?

Cheers
Mac

[x.j.]

So, I am really getting interested in this survey. So far the results are that Kirtanman says he is at or beyond stage 2 and it is fantastic. Scott was at or beyond stage 2 and says he hasn't continued doing it for a year or so.He doesn't say why he quit doing stage 2 or beyond, but by implication if he doesn't do it still his answer is that it ain't too fantastic obviously or he would still be doing it. Of the total list that Ola had researched out from past posts, she has discovered the names of a total of fifteen people who have done some cutting of the frenulum.

Her questions are the following:

1)Who has reached stage 2 kechari?

2)Secondly, if in stage 2 or beyond, is it fantastic?

So far we have determined that two people have reached stage 2 kechari by their own admission, and the count as to whether it is fantastic is the following:

Yes:1  (Kirtanman)
               
No:1  (Scott)

Would the other 13 folks please stand up and be counted? Anybody else not on Ola's list care to enter the survey? Please?

This is why we are talking on this forum, you know, to find out about these kind of things.  And only you guys can tell the rest of us your answer.  
Come on David for instance, are you at stage 2 and is it fantastic or not?
Shanti, I see you are listed. Are you stage 2? Is it fantastic?
John

[Kyman]

For those who have tried it, what effect does it seem to have?  Does the benefit come from cutting into a healed cut, that grows larger over time, or do you gain the most when you are reaching and stretching the tongue back?  I'm trying to visualize it, so I imagine that the small cut would stretch open more and heal as a larger nick than before.  Does the cut allow the frenulum to give way when the tongue is pulled upward with great force?

The way I experienced kechari, in regards to the frenulum, was a cycle of stretching and healing over time.  The force or pull upwards would cause the frenulum a lot of stress, sometimes I thought it was going to rip.  But it never did, it would just look like a wiggily string when I looked at it in the mirror after meditation.  Soon it would heal and return to a straight line, but with more length, and scar tissue.  As I'd repeat this cycle, the tiny lump of scar tissue eventually became the point where the frenulum would tear slightly as the tongue established itself in the space above.

I can't remember it ever bleeding much, but when I tried milking the tongue, after reading a post on AYP about using oil on the tongue to bring about healing, I noticed a small amount of blood and found that the frenulum had torn slightly.

I don't think it has caused me to snore.  

[x.j.]

Kyman,
would you mind please answering the survey? Are you stage 2 kechari? Is it wonderul?  Would really appreciate a clear yes/no answer here.
thanks,
John

[emc]

I am more curious about why some has defined Ola as a female. Where I come from Ola is pretty male!

[Kyman]

Hi John,

My last post was in response to something I read earlier in the thread, I hadn't seen your survey until afterwards.  I don't mind answering your question.

quote:Originally posted by John C

Kyman,
would you mind please answering the survey? Are you stage 2 kechari? Is it fantastic?  Would really appreciate a clear yes/no answer here.
thanks,
John

No. Yes.

But to be more clear, I have experimented with stage four and alternate nostril breathing, but it never became an ecstatic experience.  At least not to the degree of the previous levels.  So much of the time my meditations were in stage three.  Now I use stage two because it serves the pace I have currently set for myself.  Whatever connections were forged by stage three, they are easily called upon by stage two.  I could try to deepen my experience of kechari, but my attention is drawn to other aspects of my biology at this time.

[Scott]

quote:Hey Scott! If you don't mind...why did you stop the practice?

It's very powerful.  I have started back up a little bit a couple weeks ago, going into stage 2 (since it takes more effort to reach stage 3 now) but not every day.  I will go into it for like 20 seconds maybe just every once in a while.  I don't need to do it more right now, because just doing meditation is enough.

quote:So far the results are that Kirtanman says he is at or beyond stage 2 and it is fantastic. Scott was at or beyond stage 2 and says he hasn't continued doing it for a year or so.He doesn't say why he quit doing stage 2 or beyond, but by implication if he doesn't do it still his answer is that it ain't too fantastic obviously or he would still be doing it.

No, my answer is that it's too fantastic for me.  "There is no mudra like the kechari!"

quote:For those who have tried it, what effect does it seem to have?

It created a really really clear energetic pathway from the heart up to the crown.  I could hear the nadi humming internally very clearly.  It also seems to bring energy down from the third eye, and into the nose.  So, I always go about my day with my tongue touching the part where the roof of my mouth and my teeth are, which brings a little bit of the energy back down.

Also, it created a certain state of mental absorption.  Kind of like how some meditative asanas do that.

quote:Does the benefit come from cutting into a healed cut, that grows larger over time, or do you gain the most when you are reaching and stretching the tongue back?

The benefit comes from reaching the tongue forward and upwards, I think.  I think the snipping has little to do with it at all.

[Christi]

Hi All,

 

quote:
LAMNN wrote to Kirtanman:
I guess if this is a popular vote, your answer is ”yes”. How many percent of the snippers agree? Well, as they say, one with God is a majority. On the other hand…
I sense certain maturity from you post. Could it be that your positive experiences of snipping have more to do with that then the actual mudra? Is less yogic yogis predestined to snip in vain?

Well, my name is on the list, so I don't mind standing up and being counted! In answer to the survey by John... no (I am still in stage one) and yes, it is fantastic.

It is unbelievable. Everything is unbelievable. I don't know if I will ever make it into stage two, and to be honest, I am less and less bothered. Like Kirtanman, I sit here with tears of gratitude in my eyes.

I think it is important to realize that practices such as kechari mudra are not appropriate for everyone right now. It is a practice that has relevance once ecstasy is part of our biological functioning. Before that, it isn't going to do much. After that, and as the ecstasy expands throughout the body, it becomes more and more relevant as a practice. But it is not a primary cultivator of ecstatic conductivity on it's own. Yogani explains all this in the lessons.

So yes, if someone does not already have an ecstatic body, and they are snipping away thinking "this is going to be fantastic" then they could well be snipping in vain. It is part of a whole range of practices that work together and are to be approached in the right order and at the right time.

I was also shocked when I heard about this practice. But I snipped because I trusted Yogani. He said it was a good idea, and I trusted him. Now I can see that he was right. If I remember rightly, he said that "one day there will be two kinds of people in the world... those that practice kechari mudra and those that don't"..... I am now seriously beginning to think that may actually be true.

Christi