the star revisited (again)

[tallis]

I'd like to follow up on an earlier thread, at the end of which Christi and I were discussing The Star.  http://www.aypsite.com/plus-forum/index.php?topic=2936
But after what happened in my sadhana on Monday I have a new perspective which I feel compelled to share.

What is the Star?
Lesson 92:

quote:There was a bright circle with a dark circle inside.  In the middle was the star... (Yogani's answer):  It was mentioned in the lesson on yoni mudra kumbhaka that the attention will sooner or later be drawn out beyond the point between the eyebrows.  This is an extension of the sushumna beyond the body.  At the end of the sushumna are the infinite realms of bright white light.  They are seen as a star in the beginning.  The colors ringed around the star are the inside of the sushumna.  You are looking from the inside, so you are seeing the inside of the sushumna in your body, and the end of the sushumna off in the distance, which is the star.

This is pretty much how I perceived the Star in the past: a golden/fiery circle, inside of which there was a dark blue/violet circle, at the centre of which was an intensely bright circle: the star.  In Lesson 179 we also find the star described as a 'sphere.'

On Monday I reached the above description of the Star on the second round of kumbhaka.  But on the third and last round, the outer golden ring dissolved into midnight blue: like the night-time sky filled with countless points of light.  At the same time, the radiant sphere in the middle evolved and grew into a five-point star, the limbs of which gently wafted back and forth.  What, who are you?  At the end of the kumbhaka the vision wanted to remain for some time, so I let it, before moving into mantra.  The experience was deeply moving in a way which I can't explain.

What a beautiful mirror between the inner reality of this space, the Star and the surrounding pin-prick stars, and the outer reality of the heavens above at night!  Now I understand, even physically feel, how our body is the connection between these two realities.

My previous experiences of the Star, as per the descriptions in the AYP lessons, were just a foretaste.  The Star of the lessons is mostly a vision down sushumna, and of the the light of the star illuminating sushmuna.  (And by the way, Christi, I'm now convinced those inner rings I saw before are inner nadis of sushmuna.)  But this was about infinity.  Much greater.  And to be honest, for the first time since taking up AYP practices I feel knocked out of a general state of euphoria.  It is humbling as well as beautiful to be out there in infinity.  I don't feel quite the same.

Now some questions.

If sushumna extends out beyond the third eye, how far does it extend?  The way the outer golden ring disappeared, to be replaced by a night-time field of stars, makes me believe that I was outside my body, beyond sushumna, if that is possible.  All through each kumbhaka my third eye was pulling me out like never before.  Interestingly, I was trying out for the first time a technique recommended by Yogananda: when concentrating on the third eye, do it from the perspective of the medulla (brain stem).  It definitely worked for me.  Afterwards, through the whole duration of mantra meditation my third eye was tingly-numb and feeling pressurised, so something was definitely going on.

What was the field of pinprick stars surrounding The Star?

I wonder how much further there is to go from here to the Star...

[gumpi]

Wow!  I love reading about the star.  You must be very blessed.

Do you know much of Yogananda's writings?  It may be possible you entered the blue of the Christ Consciousness which is why the gold ring was replaced by stars?

I would love to have the same experience.

I experienced something once but everyone i have told it to didn't offer any kind of confirmation about it.  I awoke one morning in that half-awake state and i remembered to lift my eyes.  Within a few seconds i started to notice like the flickering of a flame (gold white colour) which started getting bigger until it turned into something closely resembling a catherine wheel firework!  My eyes felt sucked into the centre of it, which was just the darkness of closed eyes, like a magnet was drawing them.  As soon as i noticed this light show going on in my head i got excited, thinking, "what the f___ is that?" and it completely vanished.  

Does that experience mean anything to anyone?

It's interesting you say the white dot turned into the 5-pointed star.  I've heard of the dot INSIDE the star which is called Bindu, and when you penetrate that you enter Cosmic Consciousness.

Well done!

PS i guess you can rule out subconscious hypnosis for this phenomenon?

[tallis]

Hi Gumpi,
No, I don't know much about Yogananda's writings.  The day before, my wife happened to be browsing a kriya website, and I just 'chanced' upon the essential information.  I'm afraid I don't know what you mean by Christ Consciousness, in terms of its implications for stars instead of gold.  Can you help me on that?  Any recommendations on books about Yogananda's teachings?

Maybe it's best not to want to have the same experience.  When I first saw the star (version number one) a couple of months ago, I fell in love with it.  As much as I'm still in love with it, I think the desire to continue seeing it was part of the reason it left me for a while.  As much as I'd love to see it again even now (and especially in its new 'improved' version!), I'm not full of the expectations I was before.  Just do the practices and come what may!  Sorry to sound so dull

About your catherine wheel: I'm afraid I've never experienced anything like that.  Sorry!

Is there anyone out there who can share their own star experiences?  It seems to be more than just an individual symptom of purification.  If the star is a common link to our human nervous system, surely we should be able to share information and then map out the territory, like the explorers of old.

[Black Rebel Radio]

Hi guys. Tallis, I have had almost the exact same experience. I have no idea what it is and try to not question it. The first time I experienced it I began to weep and was filled with a sort of joy. I don't do kumbhaka on a regular basis (self-pacing, just try to listen to my body, self, God)but one time I did see a star-field like you described afterwards. It felt as if I was looking through the reality of this physical world. That was my first reaction but I just let that go and don't question what I see and drive on with the practice. When I hang on to what it might possibly be or start letting the intellect analyze the experience I start to lose my center. I have experienced blue and violet circles as well as a green (static filled almost) drenched field which dissipated to the normal black (for me anyway).

Cheers!
Mac

[sparkyfoxMD]

I too have seen the star, once. It remains with me as a blessing and a knowledge that these teachings are true. It is a wonderful encouragement to keep on! Now my desire to see it again is stronger...but now I know I shall one day.

[yogibear]

Hi Tallis,

I had an experience with a different star.  I have never seen a 5 pointed star.

About 30 years ago I went into a deep state of meditation.  As I progressed thru this experience, my forehead disappeared and I saw infinite space before me.  Then in the upper left area an equilateral triangle pointing up appeared and in the lower right area another triangle point down appeared. They meandered around in the space infront of me for a while and eventually joined to form a 6 pointed star.

Then all varieties of 6 pointed stars started appearing one after the other. Finally, one 6 pointed star appeared that had an infinite number of 6 pointed stars within it, with the points of each succeeding star fitting perfectly into the corner of the prededing star. I don't know if this is related to the tunnel that Yogani speaks of.

Eventually other phenomena occured and one that was particularly interesting to me was the snowflakes. For whatever reason, I started to see all different shapes and varieties of snowflakes. A bit after this experience, I read in a book on meditation, that when you see snowflakes, you are near the goal. I don't think that I have a high degree of spiritual consciousness and don't think I am near "the goal," judging from my own point of view. I think I am a beginner.

But reading about the snowflakes afterwards helped confirm to me that this was an authentic experience and not the result of some fantasy or suggestion or hypnotism occuring as a result of things I had read in the past.  I had read about 6 pointed stars before as being symbols of positive and negative energies like ying/yang and thought that my seeing them might be the result of this and not as something that happened independent of my involvement or at my instigation.

Well, that is my star experience. Scenary.

Best, yb.

[gumpi]

Tallis, i think that your experience is from Yogananda.  People that do not know about SRF do not see the spiritual eye the same way.  Likewise, people that claim they do not see the spiritual eye before they know about SRF obviously have some strange memory faculty.  

As YOgibear just proved, the "third eye" can be ANYTHING.  My post proved that and likewise did yours.

I want to issue a challenge.  Hehehe.  Can anyone that posts on these forums and those that just read them please please prove me wrong about that.  Show me that the spiritual eye is only one thing.

I don't mind issuing that challenge.  There should be a fairly large representative sample.

[Black Rebel Radio]

Pay close attention to the end of 2001 A Space Odyssey. When Dave travels to the Monolith.

Then revisit this thread.

Interesting stuff.

Mac

[tallis]

Hi Guys,
Thanks for sharing your experiences.  Interesting how there's a certain cross-over of common elements.  But obviously we're not going to draw any scientific conclusions on the basis of a sample of just three!  Mac, your starfield and its immediate emotional impact sound very similar to mine, but you don't mention any central star.  Was there any?  Sparkyfox, your revelation that the teachings are true also resonates with me.

Gumpi, that's a really interesting issue about whether or not knowledge of SRF influences one's perception of the spritual eye/star.  Why would that be?  To be honest, I'm not sure whether Yogibear proves your point - it sounds to me more like a different kind of experience altogether.  What you say, though, is particularly relevant to my case, because it's true: prior to reading the kriya website I mentioned earlier in the thread, my star experiences had been both less explicit and intense (while nevertheless still being amazing scenery).  But I wouldn't call my minimal browsing a real 'knowledge' of SRF.  Do you think such minimal contact would precipitate such a classical SRF star experience?  Having said that, my experience wasn't entirely SRF-like anyway, given that the gold ring had been replaced by a midnight-blue starfield.

quote:I want to issue a challenge. Hehehe. Can anyone that posts on these forums and those that just read them please please prove me wrong about that. Show me that the spiritual eye is only one thing.

I like your challenge.  Maybe someone can add to that!

Having said that, what you say about the spritual eye being / not being only one thing touches on another issue here.  Are all these experiences different because they are arise from truly different sources, or is it because we all perceive the same / similar source differently?  It makes me think of the painter Monet, who sometimes painted the same landscape at different periods of his life.  You'll find that in his earlier paintings completely different colours predominate from those in his late paintings.  Another way of putting it: every witness describes the same crime scene differently.

[tallis]

Hi Yogibear,
Just wanted to add:
I've been reading about Tibetan practices recently, and (without going into any detail here) they talk about two triangles coming together together in the central channel.  I wonder if this could be related?

[yogibear]

Hi Tallis,

My interpretation of this has been, to this point, that the triangles were the symbolic mental represention of the balancing of ha and tha in my system. Their perfect balance, according to the hatha yoga pradipika, is a necessary prerequisite for prana to leave ida and pingala and enter sushumna. This is what I perceived to happen next.

So there would appear to be some correlaton between the two schools.  

Best, yb.

[Christi]

Hi Yogibear,


 

quote:As I progressed thru this experience, my forehead disappeared and I saw infinite space before me. Then in the upper left area an equilateral triangle pointing up appeared and in the lower right area another triangle point down appeared. They meandered around in the space infront of me for a while and eventually joined to form a 6 pointed star.

I have never seen these triangles (or any triangles for that matter) inside the etheric body. But they are described in the literature on chakras as being within the heart chakra:

ANAHATA (unstruck) HEART Chakra, in the region of the heart (cardiac plexus), has twelve letters inscribed on the golden petals. In the middle are two interpenetrating triangles (forming a six-pointed star) of a smoky colour enclosing another golden triangle 'lustrous as ten million flashes of lightning',

That's from here:

http://www.frankperry.co.uk/Chakras%202.htm

So these triangles (forming a six pointed star) may not be the same as the white star within the blue dot within the golden ring, that is seen at one end of the shushumna.

 

quote:My interpretation of this has been, to this point, that the triangles were the symbolic mental represention of the balancing of ha and tha in my system. Their perfect balance, according to the hatha yoga pradipika, is a necessary prerequisite for prana to leave ida and pingala and enter sushumna. This is what I perceived to happen next.

This is my understanding as well:

triangle pointing up = male, sun, ha, pingala, siva
triangle pointing down = female, moon, tha, ida, shakti

union of the two in the heart = star of david, transcendence of sexuality, union, perfection, cosmic consciousness.

I see this as one of the first stages of enlightenment, but not full enlightenment as the jivatma is still seperate from the paramatma.

Christi

[tallis]

Hi Christi, Yogibear,
Yes, if memory serves correctly, the triangles in the Tibetan system come together in the central channel (ie sushumna) also at the heart chakra.  I think these triangles may be symbolic of the shape of the centre of the crown and navel chakras according to Tibetan tradition.  The Tibetans are also more generally interested in rising 'red drops' (symbolic of yin) from the lower chakras and falling 'white drops' (symbolic of yang) from the crown which meet at the heart to form the 'indestructible drop' (ie soul).

There seems to be a difference between the Indian and Tibetan systems here.  Whereas paintings of Indian manipura and anahata both involve an inverted red triangle in the centre of their design, there isn't an upright white triangle at sahasrara.  Where does the upright triangle in anahata come from in the Indian tradition?  The Tibetan system seems a bit more systematic in treating the double triangle at the heart as a meeting of ha and tha, represented individually at the crown and manipura.  There are other inconsistencies - and to my mind, confusions - between the two traditions that I'd like to get to the bottom of.  Will post these on another section of the forum.

[yogibear]

Hi Christi and Tallis,

From Raja Yoga by Yesudian and Haich:

 

quote:A great Yogi once said to his pupil: 'Sit opposite me in such a way that your body does not disturb you in any manner. Close your eyes.  Transfer your consciousness from your head to your heart, for that is where your SELF is. Think of nothing--only your own SELF--until you are your SELF'.--That was all! The whole of Raja Yoga is contained in these few words. For when we actually succeed in doing this, we have already reached the goal. The Yogi gave no further explanation.  Only now and then when his pupil had an emotional experience, he gave him a bit of instruction. Generally the instruction ran like this: 'If you see or hear or experience something inside yourself, don't bother about it, it is only incidental. Just keep on concentrating your whole attention on your own SELF in your HEART".

 

quote:Christi wrote:

So these triangles (forming a six pointed star) may not be the same as the white star within the blue dot within the golden ring, that is seen at one end of the shushumna.

Yes, I saw these with my spiritual eye out in space where my forehead had been previously. The 6-pointed stars within each other formed a tunnel.

They were produced by the above mentioned exercise which of course corresponds with what you have mentioned regarding the heart chakra.

The first vision I had was in the heart region. It was a golden orb rings of golden light radiating from it like ripples in a pool of water radiating from the point where a pebble has been dropped into it.  

I don't know where you experience heart chakra phenomenon. I wasn't even concentrating on the heart chakra per se. I was concentrating on the heart itself, trying to penetrate it with my consciousness.

My awareness expanded so that not only did I maintain my concentration on my heart, which became effortless, but I also was aware of the greatly slowed down occasional thoughts and the space and visions without ever losing the concentration. Everything was contained within this expanded awareness. It was complete presense.      

I can only report what I experienced. I did A and I got B.

So, regardless, of what the different schools say, the emphasis is the same in both this and Yogani's teaching: 'If you see or hear or experience something inside yourself, don't bother about it, it is only incidental. Just keep on ....practicing.

It is interesting tho to try and pick it apart and make some sense out of it.

Best, yb.

[Kyman]

Hi all,

In the past year I have begun to see a tiny dot, occasionally a ring or an orb.  Sometimes when my eyes are closed it will appear as if a light is moving past me and I open my eyes to see, but often times I have all the lights turned off.  One last image I see is what appears to be a small dot or hole and something is almost peeling off of it.  

Do we determine what is seen by where we hold our attention and direct our energy?  Does putting energy into a certain spot so the region becomes full of energy somehow produce the visions seen?  What other mechanism would one use to choose between seeing the images through the various parts of the body?  Or is our image of the third eye somewhat of a reflection of our entire spine and gives us some sense of the light that can or cannot flow through the central channel?

I have not had many visions of the third eye, but I am starting to pay attention more now that the eyes are starting to be pulled upward.  Do you have to look really far up, as in the eyes go limp, cross, and then become focused upward as the energy flows in?

My eyes seem more drawn to the tip of the nose.  They very easily relax and then drift into that focus.  From there, they begin to aim upwards without losing that gaze towards the center, as if still focused on the tip of my nose.  Once they are raised, I have only a minor degree of comfort and relaxation.  The experience is changing over time, deepening like all the other techniques, so I imagine the eyes are trying to establish a new position or circuit.

I know I threw out a lot of questions out there, if anyone has any advice or input I'd love to have some feedback.

Thanks