Cobra pose

[amoux]

Thank you Victor - those are really clear instructions

I shall try this out in my asana practice tomorrow.

[Akasha]

Hi amoux,

Looks like we cross-posted[]

quote:Originally posted by CarsonZi

In cobra you can even take the hands and clasp them behind the back (while pulling the scapula closer together on the back) to open up the anahata chakra even more.

 

quote:Hi Carson - yes, this is what I was doing(cobra without the arms employed at all,just like Carson does it) - I've been practising cobra for about three months now, and I was getting quite a deep backbend in the pose - then watched a Mark Whitwell video the other day, where he specified using the arms, not to lift, but more in a supporting role.

Yes the arms can have a supportive role and assist with the backbend in bhujangasana.
 

quote:
 I was a little concerned about damaging my neck in cobra (no actual problems, but there was definitely strain in the back of the neck) so I thought ahah! - using the arms will support the neck.

Relax the shoulders & neck- ie. let them drop down.(The chest may open more, i guess)

 

quote: I also found that I wasn't getting the feeling of stretch in the lower back that I had initially felt when I started with cobra, so using the arms has allowed me to feel that 'creative stretching' going on again.

The stretch is  in the abdomen(muscles & visceral organs),not the back or lumbar region..It's more likely though that a benefit of cobra here is that the back here is strengthened.And strengthening a muscle can make it tighter ( depending on the type of contraction).

 

quote:However, probably I'm actually using the arms too much - certainly the hip bones are coming up off the floor and the front pelvis is lifting too when I use the arms.  So I'll dial back a notch or three on the arms and see how it goes.  

This is fine. Do whatever you find/feel is comfortable. But it's starting to sound like upward-dog to me-  but what's in a name?- not much really[^]



 

quote:I have a 'trick' right hip that has a slight right on right anterior sacral torsion, so cobra is a good pose for me to focus on proper alignment - and maybe upward dog would also be good for this

.

In that case ,you could follow Victor's suggesstion that if the pelvis is not open enough  (in cobra) then widening the legs & feet,as in up-dog, might be more appropriate- a suitable modification if your pelvis or another area is too tight/insufficiently flexible.

 

quote:Incidentally, there was one video I watched which suggested that hand position is relevant - in upward dog the hands are under the shoulders, whereas in cobra, the hand are further forward.  Any thoughts on this?

I would say this is how i am currently practicing .Though there is not necessarily a right or wrong answer as it could depend on the school, the teacher and the intention(expected or targeted benefits) of any given practice.

-----

I hope that's confused matters -----only kidding.

But just to clarify, in  my view,opinion

1) The pubis ideally or the pelvis and orlegs touch the ground in bhujanagasana/cobra
2) In urdha mukha svanasana/updog the hips/pelvis are off the ground the weight is resting on the hands and arms, and the fronts of the feet are resting on the ground.


My tip  for bhujangasana is to initiate begining to enter the pose with the  para-vertebral muscles(lower lumbar muscles that run the length either side) and then if you like or is necessary assist with the arms also(stage 2 ,, if you like).Try it for yourself and notice the difference!!! But i am inclined to agree with the quote i pulled that it is the back and not the arms that are/can be  more engaged.This turns it more into a conscious backbend and  i think requires a deeper backbend rather than updog where gravity is assisting somewhat more with  any suspension going on, and the hands and fronts of the feets are the only points of contact(ideally). Cobra also necesssitate a somehwat  deeper back-bend than updog,specifically the lower back as the legs should be straight, the top of the pelvis pointing upwards(pubis,bottom-most pt. of pelvis, gently in contact with the floor),arms slightly bent,fingers splayed like a duck as usual, but maybe more in front ,depndiing on what is comfortable. I would say the bentness of the arms should probably depend on the flexibility of the back,depending on the practitoner and their unique individual anatomy & obstructions etc, as always .

[amoux]

Nailed it! (The difference betwen the two poses, I mean ) Thanks so much guys.  

Doing cobra, i engaged the arms at stage 2, kept the legs together, then back bend was fine, and I couldn't over-extend because of the leg position.  So I have a far clearer idea of how it 'should' feel.

Doing upward dog, I was aware of the completely different feel of the pose in the front of the body (and the back too, come to that).  Hips, pelvis and legs came up smoothly, with just fronts of feet on the mat.  

I like both poses, and will continue to practice both.

Incidentally, the 'stretching' in the lower back that I was feeling may not be 'stretching' as such - it's more a sensation of a shiver running up the spine - and entirely pleasurable[]

Akasha - great tip about relaxing shoulders and neck.  I'd done my asana practice this morning, read that and tried cobra again - my shoulders were definitely on the tensed side, and when I relaxed them I could feel the neck relax back too.  Thanks!

[HathaTeacher]

Hi Amoux & everybody,
Great teamwork here!
I agree that BKS Iyengar: Light on Yoga, and Swami Satyananda: Asana, Pranayama, Mudra & Bandha, are excellent asana/Bhujangasana references.

Generally the older we grow, the more the coccyx vertebrae mineralize and grow together (and the harder the work needed in backbends). If you're 30++ and still keep the legs together, it's a good trick to keep the big toes together but not the heels, rotating the straight legs slightly inward (Iyengar's setu bandha) to keep the buttocks apart, thereby making room for the coccyx to move down toward the mat, keeping the lower spine from over-bending.

In both Bhujangasana and Urdhva Mukha Svanasana, most people over-bend in the lower spine and the neck but bend far too little between the shoulderblades - therefore, to get the bend exactly there, the arms can pull the Anahata region slightly forward (very useful in Tantrist yoga, to open up Anahata). That's why some schools prefer to demonstrate Bhujangasana with elbows bent, as Carson pointed out, because this forward pull is easier to perform and to feel with bent elbows. Straightened arms ( & shoulders down, away from the ears) on the other hand make it easier to visualize inhaling air between the vertebrae to elongate the spine. IMO., nothing wrong with variation. Neither on the mat (asana) nor off the mat (Tantra).

[CarsonZi]

Hey HathaTeacher!

Was wondering when you would chime in here...thanks!

quote:If you're 30++ and still keep the legs together, it's a good trick to keep the big toes together but not the heels, rotating the straight legs slightly inward (Iyengar's setu bandha) to keep the buttocks apart, thereby making room for the coccyx to move down toward the mat, keeping the lower spine from over-bending.

Are you familiar with Anusara Yoga's "Universal Principles of Alignment"?  What you are describing in the quote above is essentially "Inner and Outer Spiral".  Just curious about how familiar you are with the Alignment principles from Anusara Yoga.

Love!


P.S. I know that I have a pretty inflexible thoracic region and have been working on this area for a while now (which actually caused some overload symptoms not so long ago as I ended up getting some anahata openings that became excessive) and am wondering if you have any spcific posture recommendations for gaining increased flexibility in the thoracic vertabrae?  Thanks for any advice!

[amoux]

quote:Originally posted by HathaTeacher
Generally the older we grow, the more the coccyx vertebrae mineralize and grow together (and the harder the work needed in backbends). If you're 30++ and still keep the legs together, it's a good trick to keep the big toes together but not the heels, rotating the straight legs slightly inward (Iyengar's setu bandha) to keep the buttocks apart, thereby making room for the coccyx to move down toward the mat, keeping the lower spine from over-bending.

Hi Hatha Teacher - many thanks for this.  At 50+, I was amused to notice this morning (having read this last night), that the heels are indeed NOT together  The big toes, however, are.    So now the aim is to contract anus and buttocks - but also rotate the legs in to keep the buttocks apart?  This will be interesting ...

[HathaTeacher]

quote:Originally posted by amoux
...At 50+, I was amused to notice this morning (having read this last night), that the heels are indeed NOT together  The big toes, however, are.    So now the aim is to contract anus and buttocks - but also rotate the legs in to keep the buttocks apart?  This will be interesting ...

Hi Amoux,
[]Yoga as 1% theory and 99% percent practice...
I'd suggest you use those 2 as separate techniques (contraction or rotation), both are intended to protect the lower spine. Setu bandha is an activation (not tense) & moderate inward rotation, especially on the front (knees & thighs) and is quite 'reusable' (in some backbends, inversions, leg balances).

[HathaTeacher]

quote:Originally posted by CarsonZi
1) ...above is essentially "Inner and Outer Spiral".  Just curious about how familiar you are with the Alignment principles from Anusara Yoga.

Love!

P.S.
2) I know that I have a pretty inflexible thoracic region and have been working on this area for a while now (which actually caused some overload symptoms not so long ago as I ended up getting some anahata openings that became excessive)

3) and am wondering if you have any spcific posture recommendations for gaining increased flexibility in the thoracic vertabrae?  Thanks for any advice!

1) Yes, mostly the inner spiral. I haven't attended workshops with J.F. himself but with two people who had their Teacher Training from him, so IMHO. it sounds like an add-on to alignment in Astanga (Iyengar, Jois). Energy (muscular/inward & organic/outward) and Grace in Anusara adds a tantra flavor to it.

2) Not very surprising because almost everybody has, from rock/jazz professionals or hospital staff through to white-collar workers, and me too. Especially taller people who weren't given the oportunity to stand out while they grew up and were asked to stay in-line... That said, self-pacing is as useful as elsewhere. Even if you feel like moving faster, it's a good idea to combine techniques to a work-around, instead of just pushing through the backbends at all costs (although some Anusara practitioners tend to do that). That's one of the ideas behind Vinyasa, postures enhancing each other in a chain.

3) I wish I had THE Thoracic Silver Bullet[] apart fom repeated self-paced training and the hathayoga package of bend - opposite bend - side bend - twist, with breathing.

To get the bend to the right spot (Anahata):
- the serpent variation you mentioned here: fingers interlaced, arms straight behind the back pull the shoulders and thoracic spine backward (looking forward)
- fish (Matsyasana), with elbows close to each other under the spine, expanding the chest in all directions but mostly upward, almost 'eating' air/prana/life in long, dedicated, ever-deeper inhalations
- low cobra (Bhujangasana), standing on your lowest rib, facing slightly upward, then lifting the palms and elbows a litle off the ground, then putting them back but still using the spinal muscles and having the hands pull the Anahata-region forward (rather than lifting).
- bow (Dhanurasana), using the legs to pull the core up and experimenting with your individual griping point on the ankles to get a similar sensation in the thoracic region as during the low cobra. Self pacing ('quads' are stronger than other muscles).
- spinal twists (similarly, twisting less in the neck and more in the thoracic vertebrae): Ardha Matsyendrasana (all leg variations), Bharavajrasana (I prefer a completely straight spine to half lotus), Marichyasana variation C. Inhalations extend the spine up, exhalations twist another 0.1 inch[] further.
- twists, lying on on your back, either static (legs once to each side), or dynamic (Nakrakriya) in the pace of the breath with exh. to the side, inh. legs to middle.
- 'non-asanas' for anahata
beeja (Yam), organ of sense (touch), organ of action (hands/arms) embracing the Shakti and the world, free will able to oppose the dictates of fate.

But even if there were hundreds of those, there's no hurry/no straining, the Iyengar (or Sivananda) 'anahata' cobra seems to take a few lifetimes anyway[]

[CarsonZi]

Thanks for this HathaTeacher

Wish you had THE Thoracic Silver Bullet too ....guess I'll just have to continue as I am....slowly, hahaha

Love!