Asanas Are 19th Century European Gymnastics?

[JohnWL]

I tried to search for any past discussions here on this topic, but couldn't find anything. So, maybe this is common knowledge.

But apparently modern yoga asanas are not thousands of years old, nor are they even coming from any kind of spiritual tradition. They are basically just variations taken directly from 19th century European gymnastics programs. Here are some links about it:

http://www.yogajournal.com/article/philosophy/yoga-s-greater-truth/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sadie-nardini/your-yoga-poses-arent-500_b_272821.html
http://www.innerliftyoga.com/blog/2014/10/7/the-truth-behind-the-yoga-body

True traditional yoga is pranayama and meditation (without modern asana postures), just like Yogani says. So what does this mean about incorporating modern yoga postures into our spiritual practice? Do asanas really provide any real spiritual benefit, other than just promoting physical strength and flexibility?

[Dogboy]

Asanas are a key tool for me in arousal of prana, so I personally don't care one bit how old the tradition. Like most my interest in yoga started with asana and better body awareness which led to directed attention (mindfulness). With meditation and the advent of kundalini, a few minutes of simple mountain, forward fold, even child's pose awakens the serpents.  My yin classes are now fountains of bliss arousal; I am mindful to radiate it outward, samyama style, and have never overloaded as a result. It awakens me and the rest of my day in a fuller manner than meditation alone.

[Charliedog]

quote:Asanas are a key tool for me in arousal of prana, so I personally don't care one bit how old the tradition. Like most my interest in yoga started with asana and better body awareness which led to directed attention (mindfulness). With meditation and the advent of kundalini, a few minutes of simple mountain, forward fold, even child's pose awakens the serpents. My yin classes are now fountains of bliss arousal; I am mindful to radiate it outward, samyama style, and have never overloaded as a result. It awakens me and the rest of my day in a fuller manner than meditation alone.

 Hi JohnWL,

I feel the same about it as Dogboy   and can not express myself as good as he! Thanks,
AND I really love asanas......

Edit ; And I know that one person can experience the same asana as a physical work-out and the other person can feel the energie rise and be completely in bliss. it is an unique experience, it depends from experience and yoga skills. Do you practice pure physical or more energetic.

[BlueRaincoat]

Hi John

I have heard that most of the plethora of asanas known today are a recent creation, but I don't know how many of them, if any, come from ancient traditions. I completely agree -  classes that teach asanas only and call themselves 'yoga' are far off the mark. The essence of yoga is working with the mind. At the beginning of his Yoga Sutras, Patanjali defines yoga this way - "Yoga is restraining the thought-streams natural to the mind / Then the seer dwells in his own nature" (1.2.-1.3.)

There has always been a concern with posture however. The same Yoga Sutras say "The  eight limbs of Yoga are self-restraint in actions, fixed observance, posture, regulation of energy" etc (2.29).

I agree with Dogboy and Charliedog in that asans have their use. I am enjoying mine a lot more since restarting my meditation practice. Without meditation, I was getting to a point where they seemed pretty useless, but once the energy builds up, it's good to have a tool to help smooth it out.

[Christi]

Hi John,

Yogani teaches two asana sequences, a simple one and a more advanced one. The simple one is in his book about asana practice (Asanas, Mudras and Bandhas) on p26 where he describes a sequence including 12 asanas. In the Easy Lessons for Ecstatic living book 2 he describes a more advanced asana sequence.

As for the history of asana practice, it is a bit lost in the shadows of time. Various ancient texts refer to asana practice including the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali (approx. 1600 years old) where it is described as one of the eight limbs of yoga. Some other texts including the  Goraksha Samhita (approx. 300 years old) refer to the classical 84 asanas taught by Lord Siva. The Hatha Yoga Pradipika (approx. 500 years old) refers to 15 asanas.

Interestingly most texts refer to 4 asanas as being very important, which are all seated asanas and amongst those, siddhasana is often referred to as being the most important. Which ties in with what Yoagni teaches.

I think the thing to remember is that Yoga has never been a fixed thing. It has always been changing and evolving with every new teacher adding some aspects and taking others away. There has also never been one yoga. Different teachers have taught different things in different places and have often had lengthy discussions which have been recorded about what was the true teaching and the true path. That has been going on for hundreds if not thousands of years and the same is true today.

So asana practice has been evolving over the last few thousand years and still is. That is not a bad thing at all, but a good thing, as teachers can make improvements based on their own experiences. The British were in India for a long time and certainly would have had some influence on the development of yoga, apparently mostly with the more "gymnastic" developments such as "ashtanga vinyasa yoga". The classical asanas were classical asanas before the British entered India.

As to the benefits of asana practice beyond stretching the body and physical strength: Asana practice activates prana in the body. This means that it helps to purify the body and activate the chakras. Different asanas work in different ways on the subtle body and have a different effect in terms of purification. The whole science of asana practice is quite complex in terms of how each asana activates and purifies the body. The best thing to do is to do it, and over time you will begin to feel the spiritual benefits and how it works.

It is very beneficial to add asana practice to your spiritual practices at the beginning before pranayama.


Christi

[Dogboy]

I am never more the warrior than a Warrior 2; and Warrior 3, I'm Superman !

[adishivayogi]

sitting poostures is all patajni talked about

[Christi]

quote:Originally posted by adishivayogi

sitting poostures is all patajni talked about

Hi Adishivayogi,

Patanjali did not actually mention any specific asanas by name, sitting or standing or otherwise. He only said two things about postures, one is that they comprised one of the eight "limbs" of yoga (ashtanga), and the other is that they should be "steady and comfortable".

Christi

[BlueRaincoat]

As I read it, the sitting position during meditation is all Patanjali cared about when it came to posture.
Makes me think not many asanas were around at the time. Which doesn't mean to say the evolution towards the variety we have today is not a positive development (as long as teachers remember asanas are not the central part of yoga)

[Dogboy]

Charliedog:

 

quote:Do you practice pure physical or more energetic.

Unsure if this is directed to me or JohnWL, but my answer is yes .

[Christi]

quote:Originally posted by BlueRaincoat

As I read it, the sitting position during meditation is all Patanjali cared about when it came to posture.
Makes me think not many asanas were around at the time. Which doesn't mean to say the evolution towards the variety we have today is not a positive development (as long as teachers remember asanas are not the central part of yoga)

Hi BlueRaincoat,

Yes, Patanjali almost certainly used one or more sitting postures for meditation practice. What we don't know is what other asanas were being used as part of Ashtanga Yoga at the time.

And yes, it does seem that there has been a gradual increase in the number of postures being used in yoga over time up to the present day.

Christi

[riptiz]

Hi,
Whenever I have been in India I have never seen anyone using any specific sitting posture for meditation or japa. Most simply sit cross legged with their feet tucked well behind.
L&L
Dave

[Christi]

quote:Originally posted by riptiz

Hi,
Whenever I have been in India I have never seen anyone using any specific sitting posture for meditation or japa. Most simply sit cross legged with their feet tucked well behind.
L&L
Dave

Hi Dave,

They could be using sukhasana or siddhasana. Sometimes when people are using siddhasana it can look as if they are just sitting cross-legged with their feet tucked in.

Christi

[kumar ul islam]

the layers of our selves are many starting with body our vessel of the soul we penetrate this with control of our posture sitting, standing ,bending twisting,awareness rises ,we go from feeling musles to our skin from here to the subtle body this body has many layers inwards we go as far as we can reach in this life time ,from the outside to the inner world .

[Charliedog]

Beautiful described Kumar!