How do I deal with bad thoughts / actions?

[11jono11]

If this should be posted elsewhere please let me know I wasn't sure.

Below is a scenario describing a series of events that have lead me to worry. The basic question I am asking is: If we feel we have done bad/have been doing bad, then how do we resolve this problem, how do we redeem ourselves, what should we do (if anything)?

I have been getting deeper into my practice for the past 4 months now, slowly walking further and further away from the material world, sense pleasure etc. There are only 2 things that I spend money on (not including bills/necessities etc), and they are God and Music (as in books, gatherings, retreats etc and music as in musical equipment, I make music at home).

Last saturday I was walking down the road with my friend, getting some fruit and veg and these guys came up beside me in a van. They asked if I wanted to buy any speakers, they started with "i know this sounds a bitt odd" and then proceeded to explain that they work for a company and were on their way to a studio and that someone had made a mistake so they had an extra set that they could sell for money to keep for themselves. I said no, my friend said no, I explained how I already had a good set for producing and then the one started going on about technical stuff, saying that they were worth £2000 and I could get them for £200. I don't know how but after a little while he had convinced me and I was on my way to the cashpoint, I thought " great I can sell them make a profit, do something good with the money and have money left over".

A little while after the transaction I discovered that this was a scam (i'm pretty sure it was anyway). A feeling of sickness overcame me, I can't / couldn't afford to lose this money, I only bought them as I thought I could sell them fast and make a profit etc, so I tried to get rid of them AFAP, through ebay friends etc, being honest, telling them what happened, but still trying to push them, quoting the price that I was quoted of £2000 but saying I don't think they are worth that. I started feeling weird about the whole experience, unclean, worried about my karma, (i tend to worry about things anyway so this is natural for me, but really been worrying about my karma).

I have spoken with a few spiritually minded friends, who just say not to worry etc, I have decided not to force the sale (even though I need the money), there is one friend who may buy them who comes back from holiday in a couple of days, I will be honest with him and tell him the whole story and say I don't know what they're worth buy I payed £200, (my friend thinks they're worth about £500 or something), I just feel weird, I have been scammed and feel like selling them is passing on the scam, even though I am conscious of my actions and try to do good AMAP i still feel weird about this whole thing. I would just cut my losses and give up and keep them/give them away etc but as a student I don't have the money I spent spare.

This whole thing has really shaken me and worried me about my actions etc, having occasional thoughts of ego thinking how to offload them onto someone else the quickest etc. Anyway, I am conscious of what I am doing, i am going to be honest with anyone I do sell them to, but these past days with these ego thoughts of getting rid of them  have been bugging me, i feel like these thoughts (of offloading them) have given me bad karma. Any advice? What should I do/not do? I feel silly posting such a materialistic worry on such a divine forum but it's really been bugging me. My friends are telling me that I haven't done anything wrong and have nothing to worry about, they are probably right though any advice would be much appreciated.

Thank you in advance, God bless you all  

[Shanti]

quote:Originally posted by 11jono11

Anyway, I am conscious of what I am doing, i am going to be honest with anyone I do sell them to, but these past days with these ego thoughts of getting rid of them  have been bugging me, i feel like these thoughts (of offloading them) have given me bad karma. Any advice? What should I do/not do? I feel silly posting such a materialistic worry on such a divine forum but it's really been bugging me. My friends are telling me that I haven't done anything wrong and have nothing to worry about, they are probably right though any advice would be much appreciated.

Thank you in advance, God bless you all  

I think you are doing great. All the bad karma will be created by you thinking you are doing wrong. You have been honest to others who you are trying to sell the speakers to. So breath.... and go with what flows.. don't worry so much... the more tension you keep... the more tension you create in your body... the more block get created. Go ahead with what you are doing... and after telling your story if someone still buys it from you... sell it to them... not sure how that is scamming.

[11jono11]

Thank you, that helps a lot though how do I go about resolving the bad karma created by thinking I have done wrong? Do I just reassure myself that I am good and have not done anything wrong? Or do I just get on with my life/ practice etc? Is it simply best to just relax and get on with things? Is it best (in general also) not to worry, actively do my best and just get on with my life?

Blessings

Jono

[Akasha]

They might have been knocked-off, i.e stolen goods, but this does'nt necessarily mean you were ripped-off(i.e £200 for £500 speakers).

You could sell them on ebay,like you say, at a fair price if you need the money and are financially strapped..But at the end of the day, they're just speakers.

The greatest treasure of course is within.

 

quote:The basic question I am asking is: If we feel we have done bad/have been doing bad, then how do we resolve this problem, how do we redeem ourselves, what should we do (if anything)?

Just accept you're nothing special.I hope that does'nt sound glib but that's the kind of thhinking i tend to go with. Nothing of us are perfect.Although to be honest with you i don't see what is morally questionable about your actions as long as you are honest about any future transactions involving this item.

Sell them on at a fair price, or keep them, or give them away.

[JDH]

Yes.  Just relax, a lot.  You've done nothing wrong, and if they are working speakers and you sell them to a willing buyer, without misrepresenting the merchandise, then no worries.  You made a business transaction for a small profit.  Businesses do it every day.  And without knowing any more of the details, I'd say it doesn't sound like you got scammed.  Especially if you're able to sell the speakers for more than you bought them for.  Their back story and the fact that they were selling them out of a van, makes the possibility that it was stolen merchandise more likely though.

Keep practicing, and don't worry so much!  Karma (like all the topics here) will make more sense as you begin to experience it directly.  It's not an exact fit with the idea of morality.  If you really deeply feel like you've done wrong, perhaps sometime you will happen upon a chance to do something "right" for somebody.

[Kirtanman]

Hi 11Jono11,

Practically speaking (pun fully intended) .. I'm sure these speakers have a make/model imprinted on them, including, perhaps, a model number?

Armed with that info, and a few minutes' Googling, you should be able to determine what they're actually worth/selling for .... which may well be in the neighborhood, or even somewhat less, than you paid.

I would think, though, that armed with this information, you could at least sell the speakers for close to what you paid, at worst - lesson-learned, and clear-conscience. And/or, keep them, if it's not too much of a burden, etc.

And yes, by the way, per what Shanti said, the deepest teachings of all traditions regarding karma point out that (of course, if you carefully consider) karma is controlled by the depths of our own consciousness; what else is there for it to be controlled by?



On the surface, this can feel like conflict, doubt and worry, until we touch these depths of consciousness experientially.

Then, it's obvious that the literal will of Life .. our own Will, Living Unbound from ideas of partiality and lack ... knows what it is doing, and does what it is knowing.



Karma is known as the law of cause and effect --- and the cause is our own consciousness, either Living Unbound from ideas of partiality (including the idea of being the one affected by karma), or dreaming bound by ignorance (including the karmic cause-effect dynamics in the worlds of duality).

And, very very important: whether or not an action is binding or liberating has to do, not with its outward effect, but with the awareness and intention behind the related action, including the perception of self as the doer ... or not.

Only the idea of the separate self worries about any of this stuff.

All action, in reality is universal action.

In Kashmir Shaivism, the three malas (illusions) to overcome are:

Karmamala - the illusion of good and bad actions (based on how circumstances and people affect "me", or how "I" affect people and circumstances).

Mayimala - the illusion of relative importance, based on relative distinctions (I, Me & Mine) .. if your house burns down, it's too bad; if "my" house burns down, it's a *tragedy*!

& finally, the fundamental illusion:

Anavamala - the illusion of being a separate self, partial and unwhole (<- Hence all the trouble; no kidding.)

When these illusions are transcended, karma is not a concern, and therefore is not incurred; it was never an independent reality, anyway; nothing is .... nothing can be.



And yet, naturally, beautifully, and automatically .... behavior tends to be more caring, more inclusive, more of the type that is usually considered karmically good .... because there's no illusion of a separate operator (we "love our neighbor as our self" -- because the fact that our neighbor *is* our self is simply and wonderfully obvious. )

And so, no operator (no "doer") - just operation itself ... operating away .... Living Unbound.

And Oh What Fun It Is!!



You're very much on the right track; God First ..... everything else is ancillary. And what does "God First" mean? Not someone else's ideas about God, certainly. Rather .... opening .... and prioritizing ..... the opening to God who is ever-always-now our true Source and Self .. via practices and intention ... exactly as you're doing.

Out of the whole history of the world, not many of us have had the Great Good Fortune to know that Liberation is Real, Possible *&* Available ...... and you're reading these words .......... so you've got all three.



Realizing this ..... you can also realize that what happens with a pair of gray-market speakers may not be such a big deal, after all.



You want to know the best thing about all this Liberation stuff?

It's REAL.

UTTERLY, BEAUTIFULLY REAL.



And just being here, you're most of the way home, if you want to be (anyone reading these words).

I hope this is helpful.

Wholeheartedly,

Kirtanman



PS- What to do with bad thoughts about actions? Simplicity itself: just let them go. Let awareness rest here ... right here ..... where it's all always perfect and beautiful ... right here, behind the dream-disturbances of thinking that we think of as "my mind and my life" .... right up until we don't any longer.

[emc]

If we, on the advice of Yogani, are to follow the laws of the country, and if this was in Sweden, I would severely suspect them to be stolen goods and first of all call the police to check if they are reported. Having bought stolen goods is a crime here (you are supposed to check carefully for original receipts etc before you buy anything). But perhaps you have different laws over there.

That would be soothing for me. If they were reported - I'd make the owner happy to get them back! I'd gladly give 200 for being able to do that service! If they were not reported - I'd sell them to any price just to get rid of the whole thing.

Good luck!

[Christi]

Hi Jono,

I agree with emc.

Take the speakers to the police and explain what happened. They are almost certainly stolen goods, and dealing in stolen goods in the U.K. is illegal. The police may be able to catch the men who sold them to you. If you sell the speakers you will be breaking the law, and that will certainly have repercussions for you down the line (karmically).

Sorry this happened to you, but at least you do have a chance now to make amends.

All the best,

Christi

[11jono11]

Thank you all for your support/replies. To Christi and emc, I have already reported it to the police (though after a week they still haven't got back to me[:0]) . And though these insignificant details don't really matter I don't think they are stolen, I think the parts have been bought at bulk (for about £170 each), put together and sold fast with this method to make a profit. In the shops they'd probably go for £200 (as that's what they do, buy in bulk and make a profit etc) but they are not a specific brand, I cannot find the manufacturer that it has on the box anywhere (apart from other listings on the internet of people trying to get rid of the same speakers). The reason I think this rather than that they are stolen is that i was directed to this article and others like it   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_van_speaker_scam  apparently this is a regular scam that I was not aware of. One of my problems is I don't know how much they are worth as they are not a named brand, though my friend who is more music tecky than me reckons at least £200 (upto £500)

Kirtanman am I right in thinking that I should just reassure myself that I am good and have not done anything wrong?/just get on with my life/ practice etc? / just relax and get on with things? /not worry, actively do my best and just get on with my life?

I feel better just from getting all this out in the open. Since posting it yesterday I feel I can let go of this issue more so and just as long as I explain to anyone buying them where they have come from I am doing the right thing.

[CarsonZi]

Hi 11jono11.....

I too have fallen "victim" to this "scam".  I still have a pair of speakers bought for $200 CDN out of the back of a van.  Exact same scenario as you, and exactly the same thing as what is described in the link above.  But to be honest with you, other then my studio monitors, these speakers have turned out to be some of the best speakers I have ever owned.  I love 'em!  I'm 90% sure that both my speakers and yours are not "stolen", so I wouldn't worry about that too much.  These "scams" are usually people who are buying bulk speakers wiring them into speaker cabinets of some sort, boxing them up and selling them for more then what the parts themselves would go for.  The parts going into these speakers are usually pretty inexpensive, but you may be lucky and find that they actually sound pretty good and last a decent length of time (I have been using mine for probably close to a half dozen years or so and they still work great....the frequency range is very good, and the clarity is better then some of my "factory produced" speaker sets so......).  I had to re-glue one of the cabinets at one point because the bass was making them rattle, but since then I haven't had a single issue with them.  So if you can manage to soak up the 200pounds you spent on them, they may actually turn out to be a decent purchase....who knows!?  If you can't soak up the cost, (which it sounds like you can't) then I would just continue as you are, trying to sell them but being honest about their origin.  I would be very surprised if they were stolen so I wouldn't worry about that too much.

As far as the worrying/karmic consequences are concerned you have recieved a lot of good advice from others so far.  I would only add that "worrying" is a product of "limited mind".  Essentially, there is never anything to worry about.  When you find your mind grasping onto thoughts about offloading them on another and the karmic consequences of that, just easily let go of that thought and come back to letting the mind rest in Silence.  If the thoughts persists or if it continues to come back to mind, just continue to easily drop it.  Don't entertain these thoughts and don't choose to suffer over them....it isn't worth it.  Nothing is worth suffering over.  

I think you have a good perspective here and I think things will work out fine....they always do

Love!

[Kirtanman]

quote:Originally posted by 11jono11



Kirtanman am I right in thinking that I should just reassure myself that I am good and have not done anything wrong?/just get on with my life/ practice etc? / just relax and get on with things? /not worry, actively do my best and just get on with my life?

"Just relax and get on with things?"

That's basically the ultimate inquiry Q&A, right there!



(But seriously .... .... it's both the question to ask any time there's a question to be asked ....... and its own answer! )

*Brilliant!*

Q. "Just relax and get on with things?"

A. "Just relax and get on with things!"

In recent decades, those of us in (so-called) Western nations have been unspeakably blessed with the influx of (so-called) Eastern wisdom (including its correlations with our own deepest esoteric traditions) .... such as yoga, meditation and so on.

However, even with these amazingly powerful tools, many of us cost ourselves years if not decades longer in pre-Liberation sadhana than needed, through utter unawareness that the only problem(s), ever, are the machinations of limited-mind, alone.

And if and when the confusions of limited-mind kick in (if there's confusion .... it's limited-mind .... .. and/or if there's certainty, but there's discomfort .... it's limited-mind) ... the only answer I can ever recommend, really, is:

"Just relax and get on with things!"



(& 11Juno11 - please note that *you* came up with that answer; I'm just enthusiastically agreeing with you!! )

And, by the way, I, too, was going to mention (but forgot, in my original post) that, as far as I know, the DSC (Dreaded Speaker Scam ) was very likely nothing illegal; here in the U.S. that sort of thing is very common, and done with speakers, (allegedly high-quality yet atrociously low-quality) perfumes, (allegedly) designer clothing, and so on.

Depending on one's feelings and experience with the given products, it's not even a "scam" in the literal sense - the buyer (per Carson's post, and yours, 11Juno11) usually gets something close to the value of what they pay for the product(s).

The scam-factor resides more in the contrived story ..... "Pssst ... we have these extra products, here .... and you can have 'em really cheap ...." .... which for some reason plays better than "Excuse me, I just took a commission-only sales job, which is why I'm bothering you unannounced, and if you buy these speakers for $200, I make $40. You want 'em?" ) ...... which is contrived for the sole purpose of getting you to buy right then and there, which you likely would never do, if you were told, say, the truth ...... than in any actual "rip off".


Wholeheartedly,

Kirtanman

[11jono11]

Thank you CartonZi, I am not the only one then, at least we've helped some people make a small profit ay, and haven't really lost out on much, they'd probably go for about 200 in a store anyway, better than getting mugged .

And thank you to Kirtanman, your response made me laugh , indeed, just relax and get on with things, think that's my new mantra .

I think occasionally I find things to worry about to distract me from more pressing issues, this is the first time that Karma has come into those worries, and hopefully the last. Indeed, nothing is worth worrying about and worrying is a product of limited mind, I just need to trust everything to God/Brahman/The universe etc. "Everything is perfect, so perfectly perfect" -Upanishads (some translation anyway) , This has all been a lesson (like everything can be if you look at it in the right way), to practice universal/unconditional love and non attachment (and many other angles I'm sure).

Thank you all for your support and advice, I will now continue to practice, relax and get on  with things (+P.S , apologies for taking so long to thank you all)

God bless you

[Akasha]

I think it was Yogani that said our karma is unfathomable.

If you're engaged with the AYPractices  inevitably these thoughts do crop up- ( but how does one deal with one's karma?,is there a way to burn it up quicker? etc), especially given all the talk of purification and the like.Though clearly it's  the result of a greater awareness and sensitivity cultivated about the effect of one's actions/thoughts etc ,arising from the practices, than any pre-conceived mental concepts.

I had this too with AYP.. The best  advice is there is no point analysing it as the chain of cause and effect is so likely infintelly complex(& retrospectively uncanny-life is!), that only a divine intelligence could comprehend it. I believe the zen folk would say there's no point looking for right or wrong- it's not just that the good is good in relation to the bad but that this binary opposition is irrelevant; the mind just liking jumping through hoops.

If you see shortcomings in your behaviour or conduct,I think it's best not to judge it- it is what it is- i believe too much mental analysis being an obstacle to yoga, because it gets in the way of practice, may be covered under the niyamas(surrendered to an ideal/higher cosmic design or ordering, and contentment.  i think you can study yourself but without being judgemental, especially if you've got the witness state cultivated- you don't have to loook to others for a sense of right and wrong- you are already in touch with a higher source guiding your actions/thought/beliefs, self-integrity).

Maybe you were thinking "but i'm doing AYP- this cannot be good karmically-speaking'- i've had this with the transcendental deep meditation-  

-the mind wants to comprehend it and analyse -an event say
 -but   if karma is unfathoomable, which basically means you cannot make sense of it,  which i hope you find helpful too, as well as the thought there is no right and wrong( these are just judgements) then you're not going to  separate an event and think that was because of event/thought xyz. if i look back on my life and looked at it- every event can end up seeming like a miracle- i'm just thankful i'm still here- it's almost uncanny- it's stranger than anything you could find in a book and way more unpredicatble- life/reality is while lot stranger than fiction.   there is no clear cause and effect- it is infinitelly too complex to analyse it.  you can look back on your life i think - hey from a causal point of view there may be some design but i think it's pretty beyond our limited mind's to comprehend. which is why i said to just accept whatevver comes your way including yourself. though some things you realy don't have much control over(scams or not scams)- but that does'nt matter. none of it matters if you're making the effort  and  are accepting of wherever you find yourself.

[Smileyogi]

quote:Originally posted by 11jono11
 The basic question I am asking is: If we feel we have done bad/have been doing bad, then how do we resolve this problem, how do we redeem ourselves, what should we do (if anything)?

hehehe..Jono:)..lovely post.
You're asking how do you know if you do good or wrong?
I'll give you my mahayogi secret..
Just watch your stomach..actually the solar plexus.
If is relaxed..then do it.
If is contracted,you'll feel it like a stone there..
If relaxed..you'll feel the energy moving,like a clear light.
If contracted..you'll feel it tight,and the energy not moving.
If you listen to your guru center(aka..the solar plexus) you'll be fine regardless of karma.
Much love to you.
The guru is in you,and outside also..
Kisses:)
Danny
ps..if you're not sure if is contracted or relaxed(the solar plexus,or the belly) just breath a bit..if you can breathe relaxed,then do it..otherwise the energy/breath will sink in your stomach ..and not go upwards..just a tip...and don't worry about karma,there are many of them,and some of them you can't escape since they are from past lives..already registered in the genetic code(I talk about the body karma)
"To us all towns are one, all men our kin. Life's good comes not from others' gift, nor ill. Man's pains and pains' relief are from within. Thus have we seen in visions of the wise !." - Tamil Poem-