Author Topic: bad karma?  (Read 2345 times)

whippoorwill

  • Posts: 437
bad karma?
« Reply #15 on: June 02, 2011, 11:53:50 PM »
Hi Manigma:  Thanks for sharing your wisdom.  Just speaking for myself...  I'm not ready to live this way.  Either some day this will resonate on some deep level or it won't.  For now, transcending right and wrong seems like dynamite.  I don't want that kind of power.  And in the meantime, I'll just live my dream with everything that I am, and hopefully that's good enough.  [:)]

Much love,
--Liz

nirmal

  • Posts: 438
bad karma?
« Reply #16 on: June 03, 2011, 12:59:18 AM »
What you say and what I have read, I am clearly not yet ready at this stage of my path to practically(if that's possible!)apply this to my life.

I will continue to follow my heart and instincts to steer me on this journey, and, who knows,maybe if,by the Grace of God I am awakened or further, maybe these words will have new meaning for me.

I do thank you manigma, for all your help, and giving me a peek into a doorway I have never visited before! Maybe once again in future, who knows?

[:D]nirmal

jeff

  • Posts: 971
bad karma?
« Reply #17 on: June 03, 2011, 01:34:20 AM »
Manigma is correct, but as many of you have said, it is a big jump and you can create suffering for yourself worrying about it.  A simple step might be...

For others Karma...  Don't judge.  You don't have all the facts and it is not your call.  Don't worry about it.

For yourself...  Remember, when you pay attention, every moment is new. Let the past go and don't let yourself get caught in autopilot mode. Karma hangs out with the autopilot... [:)]

Peace & Love.

nodoubt

  • Posts: 90
bad karma?
« Reply #18 on: June 03, 2011, 04:45:33 AM »
quote:
Originally posted by lizmoran

Hi Manigma:  Thanks for sharing your wisdom.  Just speaking for myself...  I'm not ready to live this way.  Either some day this will resonate on some deep level or it won't.  For now, transcending right and wrong seems like dynamite.  I don't want that kind of power.  And in the meantime, I'll just live my dream with everything that I am, and hopefully that's good enough.  [:)]

Much love,
--Liz



When you practice yoga, inner silence takes you there naturally.

Medea

  • Posts: 115
bad karma?
« Reply #19 on: June 03, 2011, 06:41:05 AM »
quote:
Originally posted by jeff

 Karma hangs out with the autopilot... [:)]



Thanks for that sound bite Jeff :) Good one to remember every now and then.

whippoorwill

  • Posts: 437
bad karma?
« Reply #20 on: June 03, 2011, 01:16:40 PM »
Hi Nirmal!  Thanks for creating this post.  There's big growth going on over here, thanks to you.  [:)]

Hi Jeff!  I can do that.  Thanks!  

Hi Manigma!  I just realized....  I think you believe the soul, the core essence of who we are, is constant -- immutable by any human action or circumstance.  That idea is completely new to me.  But it's something I can grasp and accept and actually look forward to understanding a bit better.  

Hi nodoubt!  I hope meditation does take me better understanding.

But I also just wanted to say...  You're talking to women about rape and murder and about how it all doesn't matter because it isn't real.   Do you have any idea how frightening that is or how callous it sounds?  (Particularly to someone who has been sexually assaulted!)  Is there a less inflammatory example you can pull out of your back pocket for the next newbie yogini to come along?

Much love,
--Liz

Akasha

  • Posts: 422
bad karma?
« Reply #21 on: June 03, 2011, 01:27:54 PM »
A little bit each day does make a difference.

Be Happy.

ALL the Love.[^]

Etherfish

  • Posts: 3597
    • http://www.myspace.com/electromar
bad karma?
« Reply #22 on: June 03, 2011, 01:29:05 PM »
Of course it matters. That is why karma exists. If nothing mattered there would be no karma.
There are kinds of consciousness where you may see that nothing matters because it is all illusion, but that is beyond this normal everyday world.

In the normal everyday world most of us live in, we take physical action, and others are affected, and there are consequences.
Don't be fooled by "spiritual talk" where people mix things from different worlds. In a world where "we are all one", and "everything is illusion", words are not used either because they are only representations, not reality.

Akasha

  • Posts: 422
bad karma?
« Reply #23 on: June 03, 2011, 01:49:57 PM »
Hi Nirmal,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Seg2aE7MVb0&feature=related

I hope you enjoy my humble offering.

All the LOVE..

Love you Nirmal.[8D]

manigma

  • Posts: 1065
    • http://www.facebook.com/manigma
bad karma?
« Reply #24 on: June 03, 2011, 05:24:47 PM »
quote:
Originally posted by lizmoran
Is there a less inflammatory example you can pull out of your back pocket for the next newbie yogini to come along?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IO45ZiGql8E

Enjoy.

[:D]

manigma

  • Posts: 1065
    • http://www.facebook.com/manigma
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« Reply #25 on: June 03, 2011, 05:38:22 PM »
quote:
Originally posted by nirmal
I do thank you manigma, for all your help, and giving me a peek into a doorway I have never visited before! Maybe once again in future, who knows?


I have told this to you earlier also.

Nir means without and Mal means dirt.

Pure.

Realise it now or in the future.

You are, was and will be... nirmal.

[:D]

nirmal

  • Posts: 438
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« Reply #26 on: June 04, 2011, 08:34:36 PM »
Hi everyone,
Thanks!My head and heart are full. manigma, I've been reading the material you sent me, and it will take awhile to fully read and digest it all. One thing it has already helped was the misconception of "mine."
I have suffered a great deal for Years over the loss of everything I owned. All of My stuff. It's now in the hands of other people who now call it Their stuff! I have been searching for a way to let go, and at last I have found It! I gained more insight into the witness. I understand what you are saying when you say that which was never born will never die; perfect silence inside, and the body is not me. All this you speak of sounds like a description to me of God,who I know is within each of us. I realise I have much to learn/experience to fully understand all of this. I enjoyed all the videos! I think/know you're right, Liz!
 This Has been a learning experience!
Yes manigma,nirmal was my(there's that word again!) spiritual name given to me by the late Yogi Bhajan.I truly love the name.

[:D]nirmal
« Last Edit: June 05, 2011, 06:53:55 PM by nirmal »

whippoorwill

  • Posts: 437
bad karma?
« Reply #27 on: June 05, 2011, 03:34:37 AM »
Hi nirmal!  I'm so happy you're finding joy.  [:D]

I hope it's not rude to add to your post at this point.  If I'm being rude, please forgive me and send me a note saying so, so that I know not to do it again.

I just wanted to respond to Etherfish and to share more of what I learned in these intervening hours.

Hi Etherfish!  [:)]  I know that what we do matters and that this way of living isn't practical for everyday life.  It's more like I realized that Manigma and I were viewing the same object, the soul, from two very different perspectives.  You know how two people can look at an object, and it doesn't even look like the same object?  You have to physically travel through space to the other person's vantage point to realize that its the same thing.  That's kind of what happened for me with this topic.  I realized I had made the trip to manigma's vantage point before.  

I grew up with the belief that the soul is mutable, and that we basically have one shot at making our souls good enough to be accepted into heaven  (no re-incarnation).  (In fact, I think that's why westerners tend to cling so desperately to life.  ("Hey, God!  I wasn't finished yet!"))  

But there was a time when I realized that there was a tiny piece of me that no one could damage.  It didn't matter what my tormenters did, they could not hurt me there.  And in that tiny place, I was completely free.  Free to see what needed doing and to do what I must.  Right now, that part of me is infinitesimally small, and I have no need to find it.  But I have a feeling that meditation makes it grow larger.  And maybe for some, that place is big enough to live in all the time.  

But I don't think it's a safe place to live.  I could easily fool myself into thinking that I'm in that place when I'm not.  And what evil would I be capable of while I'm busy fooling myself?  I don't want to find out.

much love,
--Liz

« Last Edit: June 05, 2011, 04:04:14 AM by whippoorwill »

nirmal

  • Posts: 438
bad karma?
« Reply #28 on: June 05, 2011, 03:18:33 PM »
Hi Liz!
No problem! I wish more folks would add something when they get the urge! Reading your replies helps me to grow too!

This space you are talking about sounds like something to nurture, not fear.

[:)]nirmal

kevincann

  • Posts: 336
bad karma?
« Reply #29 on: June 05, 2011, 04:24:37 PM »
quote:
Originally posted by nirmal

Hi Liz!
No problem! I wish more folks would add something when they get the urge! Reading your replies helps me to grow too!

This space you are talking about sounds like something to nurture, not fear.

[:)]nirmal




We can't understand karma, until we understand the nature of being; then it is very simple for us to understand.

At the core of everything are the sparks, known by some as Atman. These sparks are eternaly related to the being some call God.

These sparks have eternally been building space/time/matter and everything that can exist, by a cooperative effort.

Through this haze of the subjective creation, shines the light of Awareness, that is undifferentitated and eternal.

Some call that which is modified by the sparks shakti, or maya or illusion. Well. Just like an engine is not a car, and a car is the ultimate reality so to speak, the One, the undifferentiated is the car and the engine is shakti. This does not make shakti an illusion. This does not make matter an illusion. This is silly talk. Just because some become obsessed with a thing, mistaking it for the whole.. that does not make it an illusion. That makes the mistaker mistaken. Don't kick the dog cause you failed your homework.

So, we have two eternal subcomponents so to speak, undifferentiated awareness and that which is frothed up into form by the collective activity of the sparks. Beyond even this layer, would be "God".

Under the hood of reality, are all these many power conduits.. you might call them the nadis in the body of God, if you want to use the lingo.

Sometimes the nadis get congested, and a temporary being is born. You might call this a soul. Souls are bits of congestion in the nadis of the body of God so to speak, which are powered by Atman, and through which the undifferentiated awareness of the One still shines.. though it is buried like a seed at the core.

What people call individual karma is in fact, just a bit of congestion stored up in a 'soul'. The soul, and it's reflection in matter, the ego or "little self", while it has the delusion that it is the source of being, and not just a temporary reflection, hangs onto this congestion. The One, Awareness does not interfere with these bits of congestion.. souls.. and egos.. it's all part of the great structure.

When the little self, the soul and all other parts of the delusion of being the source starts to fade away, the congestion is released. "Karma" is cleared away. Asking "others" for forgiveness and such methods of "releasing karma" are just fine..if for no other reason than to help release the gunk. But at the end of the day, that's all it is--gunk. Of course learning to love and other valuable lessons, through 'getting over yourself', getting over the delusion that you are a separate little self.. this is wonderful and to be encouraged. So don't mistake the under the hood for the whole picture.. Awareness does shine through us all, and learning to let the Awareness shine through, by reacting to the world (whether to purify karma or for any other reason) is wonderful.

So, yes, ultimately it is true, there is no such thing as individual karma, as there is no such thing as being an individual.. we all learn this eventually.. but until we learn this lesson, "manning up" and "womaning up" for our actions, even as little temporary beings is entirely appropriate. Forgiving ourselves is one of the most powerful ways to clear "individual karma". Let it go--let it flow..
that is the power of forgiveness.

Now there IS a thing called group karma. It too is very simple, once we understand it.

The Multiverse/Universe exists, due to OUR core being (the sparks, the Atman). We need to take responsibility for our actions. That is group karma.

In a manner of speaking, the Boddhisattva vow
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodhisattva_vow

is not optional. If you are here.. you took it. It's all good..

The reason it's all good.. is that the real you deserves a capital Y; its You that took the vow, not you. The Atman is quite up to this or any other task, with utmost humor and enjoyment.

Love,

Kev