kriyaboy
USA
28 Posts
Posted - Dec 24 2018 : 09:02:04 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Topic Reply with Quote View user's IP address Get a Link to this Message Delete Topic
quote:
Reaching a stage where you can engage in sexual practice without blocking of any kind, and without ejaculation, is the next stage. That is referred to as "pre-orgasmic sex" in the lessons. To reach that stage you have to stop "edging" as edging will lead to either ejaculation or blocking eventually.
Can you elaborate on the distinction that you are making between edging and pre-orgamic sex? Does the latter mean that you maintain a low level of arousal?
My experience has been that neither blocking nor squeezing the pelvic floor muscles has been a very effective method for preventing ejaculation. Rather after considerable practice, what seems to have worked is first developing a greater awareness of when approaching the point of no return and instead using muscular relaxation instead. That approach avoids both actual and retrograde ejaculation. But it does not seem to require maintaining a low level of arousal.
Christi
United Kingdom
3543 Posts
Posted - Dec 25 2018 : 09:28:17 AM Show Profile Email Poster Visit Christi's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Get a Link to this Reply Delete Reply
Hi Kriyaboy,
The distinction being made between "edging" and "pre-orgasmic sex" is that with edging, someone comes very close to orgasm many times, backing-off just before orgasm. Whereas with the teaching on pre-orgasmic sex in AYP, Yogani advises people to "not come close to anything that could be called a climax".
The problem with edging, especially for men, is that it can lead to an ever-increasing level of arousal which eventually spills-over into orgasm and the loss of sexual energy and fluids.
With AYP tantra, blocking is only a last resort technique used to avoid ejaculation when all else fails. It is like kindergarten stage tantric sex. This would go for both blocking with the fingers or by using the muscles at the perrineum.
So, the ideal is to maintain a pre-orgasmic state during the practice of tantric sex where we do not come close to orgasm, and do not need to block using any technique. This is not necessarily a low level of arousal and in fact, over time can lead to a very high level of arousal. If the sex is between a couple, then it can lead to a very high level of arousal for both people involved for long periods of time.
And yes, relaxing certain muscles at certain times is important, in order to stay well in front of orgasm.
Christi
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Dogboy
USA
1586 Posts
Posted - Dec 25 2018 : 7:57:47 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Get a Link to this Reply Delete Reply
Your method is sound, Kriya boy, it's really all about arousal, and being in it, and finding the silence. I find not using the hands at all helps tremendously. Allowing an occasional orgasm, after cultivating arousal over time, has made relations with my non-yogic wife very satisfying indeed. Arousal is more than enough.
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kriyaboy
USA
28 Posts
Posted - Dec 26 2018 : 09:06:18 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Get a Link to this Reply Delete Reply
quote:
We do not come close to orgasm, and ... this is not necessarily a low level of arousal and in fact, over time can lead to a very high level of arousal.
Perhaps it is just a matter of semantics, but initially that seemed somewhat contradictory. But upon further reflection, it may be that the distinction you are making is one of intent. With edging, the intent is to remain close to the edge, whereas with pre-orgasmic sex it is not. So the suggestion is to not make that one's intent. But regardless of the intent, there will invariably be times when one comes close to edge, so gaining a degree of control by developing a high level of awareness still must be the ultimate goal.
Edited by - kriyaboy on Dec 26 2018 1:19:20 PM
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kriyaboy
USA
28 Posts
Posted - Dec 26 2018 : 10:14:46 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Get a Link to this Reply Delete Reply
quote:
Allowing an occasional orgasm, after cultivating arousal over time...
On the topic of an occasional orgasm, I came across the following post elsewhere on the Web by Fred Davis, who says he occasionally teaches tantric spiritual alchemy:
"Then there was the doctrine that there was a hollow tube going from testis to brain along the spinal cord and the internalized semen goes up that to feed the brain and then the purified semen comes back down, all without ejaculation and then the final ejaculation at then end. The ?purified semen? is clear thick slippery liquid which is in this modern day, is pre-ejaculatory lubricating liquid with no sperm and other items mixed in. Semen does not go up to the brain, get purified by feeding the brain, and then return. There can be a couple of ounces of said ?purified semen? after some hours of vajroli."
This characterization appears somewhat different from what has been discussed on this site. It seems to me that the notion of semen going into the bladder is really just a product of blocking rather an essential part of the process, and one I have not experienced. The above characterziation seems less physiological and given that this process of transformation is not really a physiological one, a somewhat more eloquent way to describe this process. Given that I have experienced ejacuation of semen that is clear rather than white, I wonder whether this is an experience shared by others.
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Christi
United Kingdom
3543 Posts
Posted - Dec 26 2018 : 4:35:01 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit Christi's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Get a Link to this Reply Delete Reply
Hi Kriyaboy,
quote:
Perhaps it is just a matter of semantics, but initially that seemed somewhat contradictory. But upon further reflection, it may be that the distinction you are making is one of intent. With edging, the intent is to remain close to the edge, whereas with pre-orgasmic sex it is not. So the suggestion is to not make that one's intent. But regardless of the intent, there will invariably be times when one comes close to edge, so gaining a degree of control by developing a high level of awareness still must be the ultimate goal.
This is simply something that comes with practice. If we are used to associating a high level of arousal, with orgasm and ejaculation, then those things will be associated both in the mind and physically. But if we practice pre-orgasmic sex, staying well away from anything that could be called "approaching the edge" or "a climax", then the usual association made between high levels of sexual arousal and ejaculation/ orgasm, begins to fall away, and the two become separate.
quote:
It seems to me that the notion of semen going into the bladder is really just a product of blocking rather an essential part of the process, and one I have not experienced.
The process of automatic vajroli (sexual fluids and energy being drawn up into the bladder and then higher up in the body in etheric form) is an advanced stage in yogic practice and is not experienced by many people yet. Many yogis and yoginis do not have a strong enough dedication to their personal practice, or to the practice of brahmacharya, to reach this stage.
The process is not related in any way to the colour of sexual fluids. It is related to the level of purification of the subtle neurobiology, the power of the flow of kundalini in the body, the level of spiritual desire (bhakti) and the degree to which the yogi or yogini has mastered the preservation of sexual energy (brahmacharya).
Christi
