Kabbalah, Gnosticism and Christianity

[Philip]

Moderator note: The following discussion was originally split off from this topic on Dec 24, 2006: http://www.aypsite.com/plus-forum/index.php?topic=1820
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Concerning the back-fitting of scriptures. I could not disagree more on this point. All the scriptures are written in code, and only those who know the ciphers can read this correctly. What is being taught today by mainstream religions, almost without exception, is totally dead and devoid of real understanding. This is because the supposed experts do not possess the knowledge (gnosis, daath, jana, etc.) that is needed in order to properly assimilate and teach those looking of spiritual guidance.

Now, at first the Christians had this knowledge, yet, eventually lost it. The entire Bible was written by those who knew the Kabbalah, yet, today that knowledge is thrown out as hogwash. No one can understand the Bible, especially Genesis and Revelations without deep kabbalistic understandings.

To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of God; but for others they are in parables, so that seeing they may not see, and hearing they may not hear. – Luke 8:10

I gave you milk to drink, not solid food; for you were not yet able to receive it. Indeed, even now you are not yet able. – 1 Cor 3:2

He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. – Matthew 13:11

And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand. – Luke 8:10

We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. – John 3:11

It is impossible to bring souls into the Light without the Mysteries of the Light-kingdom. – Jesus, The Pistis Sophia

It so happens to be that such yogis as Sri Yukteswar and especially Lahiri Mahasaya knew the correct ways to interpret the scriptures, because they were highly exalted by God. And many others as well, such as Sivananda, Vivekananda, Ramakrishna..

[Doc]

quote:Originally posted by Athma_Shakti:
"....open mind is very important in any type of learning by inquiring or exploring and taking the positive points, but the inquiring should not be exploited or used as a tool for degrading the teachings of great spiritual giants like Jesus Christ."

Thank you, Athma!

I totally agree with your comment here. And I would like to add that, in my humble opinion, denigrating the person of Jesus at anytime, but especially during the Christmas Season, reflects unconcealable spiritual immaturity combined with an unusually poor discernment of appropriate personal expression!

Hari OM!

Doc

[Doc]

quote:Originally posted by Philip:
"What is being taught today by mainstream religions, almost without exception, is totally dead and devoid of real understanding."

More Horse Apples! Nothing could be more erroneous or further from the truth. Such views are typically expressed by 'outsiders' looking in....without having had the experiential benefits of personal initiation and the illumination of advanced religious instruction. As a result, derogatory opinions of this kind...professed by persons who obviously don't have the 'inside scoop' on things...are of no real value, IMO! It's a dead issue.

Hari OM!

Doc

[david_obsidian]

Philip said:
Concerning the back-fitting of scriptures. I could not disagree more on this point


Philip,  good for you.  You disagree with me 100%,  and feel free to post.  And you should.  I welcome your disagreement, am glad you feel free to post it, and hope you continue to feel free to post it.

athma_shakti said:
But the inquiring should not be exploited or used as a tool for degrading the teachings of great spiritual giants like Jesus Christ.


At the same time, we are not a Christian forum, though Christians are of course free to post here.  So people are free to have their own opinion on whether Jesus Christ was a great spiritual giant, and also on the quality of his teachings and that of other spiritual figures.

Of course, people should make an effort to be sensitive in the way they express disagreement with other people's cherished beliefs -- if you want bad example on that, look at me,  but I'm getting better.    But there is no tolerance without tolerance of expression of disagreement.

[Philip]

Maybe if you watch this video you will see differently...
    
Sex: The Secret Gate to Eden
http://www.gnosticstore.org/servlet/Detail?no=110

I have seen this video and I think it is very good.

I do not know how can someone say they understand the Bible if they do not understand Kabbalah. That seems quite absurd to me. We should know, for example, that the four gospels each teach a specifically about different sephorioth, namely: Malkuth, Yesod, Hod, and the Netzach, which is in relationship to the physical, vital, astral and mental bodies.

Best regards!

[Doc]

Namaste David!

We are in complete agreement on that. Very well stated!

Kudos and props to you as well, David, for your many significant strides in positive self-growth and enhanced personal diplomacy....especially in such a brief period of time. That's very cool! And most impressive indeed!

Hari OM!

Doc

[david_obsidian]

Kudos and props to you as well, David, for your many significant strides in positive self-growth and enhanced personal diplomacy

I suppose the two sides of the coin in terms of this diplomacy are  (i)  Being slow to take offense at mere disagreement and contrary views  (ii)  working on being easy to take for people with cherished beliefs.

I've worked on (ii) over time,  but I haven't needed to work on (i) at all, because I've always had it here on the forum.  What we need now is someone who needs to work on (i) and does.  Then they could join me in a dual showcase of success.

[Doc]

Hello, David:

Well, I for one sincerely hope that such a person joins in your 'Showcase of Success', as I would hate to see you become a 'Rebel Without A Cause! And I certainly hope that you weren't expecting ME to join you. LOL

Hari OM!

Doc

[Christi]

Hi Philip and welcome to the forum!
 

quote:Concerning the back-fitting of scriptures. I could not disagree more on this point. All the scriptures are written in code, and only those who know the ciphers can read this correctly.

I would agree with you here. Someone with highly illuminated knowledge could fairly easily understand the true meaning of ancient scripture, and explain it's true significance. After all, it was (hopefully) written originally by someone in an equally highly illuminated mind state.
 

quote:Philip wrote:
What is being taught today by mainstream religions, almost without exception, is totally dead and devoid of real understanding. This is because the supposed experts do not possess the knowledge (gnosis, daath, jana, etc.) that is needed in order to properly assimilate and teach those looking of spiritual guidance.

We could say that a lot of what is being taught today under the name of religion is dead and devoid of real understanding. As you rightly point out, there are people of high spiritual realization who are holding up the lamp, so to speak, in a world of darkness. You name a few from the Eastern traditions, but I am sure there are also many individuals from the various Western traditions who are equal in their knowledge and teaching of spiritual matters.
 

quote:Now, at first the Christians had this knowledge, yet, eventually lost it. The entire Bible was written by those who knew the Kabbalah, yet, today that knowledge is thrown out as hogwash. No one can understand the Bible, especially Genesis and Revelations without deep kabbalistic understandings.

This is very interesting. Of course, the old testament was a Jewish texts (or made up out of a large collection of Jewish texts), and the kabbalah was the principal teaching in the esoteric aspect of the Jewish religion. So what you say makes sense there. And as I understand things, Jesus studied with the Essenes in the Qumran dessert, a mystery school based on the teachings of the Gnostics. And where did the Gnostics get their ideas from? Probably at least partially from the Kabbalah. So what you say would make a lot of sense in reference to the new testament also.
What you say about Genesis and Revelations is very interesting. I have been trying to "decipher" this stuff for a long time and have never got very far. I say decipher because, as you say, it is obviously highly encoded (or at least symbolic). I had got to the point where I realized that the Kabbalah is at the heart of a lot of it.
 

quote:I do not know how can someone say they understand the Bible if they do not understand Kabbalah. That seems quite absurd to me. We should know, for example, that the four gospels each teach a specifically about different sephorioth, namely: Malkuth, Yesod, Hod, and the Netzach, which is in relationship to the physical, vital, astral and mental bodies.

Fascinating. If this is true, it is an incredible statement. I had realized that Jesus's teachings are (mostly) on two levels, the profane and the spiritual. And I had realized that John seemed to be writing in a kind of "spiritual illuminated realm" kind of way, but it had never occurred to me that the four gospels could line up so exactly with the four lower bodies.
I am only on a dial-up connection so unfortunately could not watch the video link that you posted. Do you have any links to websites that help people understand the bible based on an understanding of the kabbalah?

Christi

[david_obsidian]

Doc said:  And I certainly hope that you weren't expecting ME to join you. LOL

Reformed sinners are always so much more inspiring and exciting than always-saints.   I mean look at Etherfish -- he came here with both (i) and (ii).  BO-RING!  Not to mention Yogani,  BO-O-O-RING!

[Doc]

Gnosticism, in each of its many cleverly fabricated versions, has consistently been rejected by the Orthodox Christian Faith as a heresy from the time of gnosticism's initial appearance nearly 1,800 years ago. And in turn, it has also been rejected by most other Christian church denominations since then, finding both the gnostic doctrine and the methods based upon it to be erroneous and objectionable.

Here are a couple of summary overviews of gnosticism for those who are unfamiliar with the spiritual philosophy it represents:

http://www.savior-of-all.com/gnosticism.html
http://grailchurch.org/gnostic_heresy.htm

And here is the famous defining written response to gnosticism by St. Irenaeus of Lyons, entitles 'Against Heresies':

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book1.html

Hari OM!

Doc

[VIL]

quote:

The word 'Gnosticism' is a modern construction, though based on an antiquated linguistic expression: it comes from the Greek word meaning 'knowledge', gnosis (ãí#8182;óéò). However, gnosis itself refers to a very specialised form of knowledge, deriving both from the exact meaning of the original Greek term and its usage in Platonist philosophy.

Unlike modern English, ancient Greek was capable of discerning between several different forms of knowing. These different forms may be described in English as being propositional knowledge, indicative of knowledge acquired indirectly through the reports of others or otherwise by inference (such as "I know of George Bush" or "I know Berlin is in Germany"), and empirical knowledge acquired by direct participation or acquaintance (such as "I know George Bush personally" or "I know Berlin, having visited").

Gnosis (ãí#8182;óéò) refers to knowledge of the second kind. Therefore, in a religious context, to be 'Gnostic' should be understood as being reliant not on knowledge in a general sense, but as being specially receptive to mystical or esoteric experiences of direct participation with the divine. Indeed, in most Gnostic systems the sufficient cause of salvation is this 'knowledge of' ('acquaintance with') the divine. This is commonly identified with a process of inward 'knowing' or self-exploration, comparable to that encouraged by Plotinus (ca. 205–270 AD). However, as may be seen, the term 'gnostic' also had precedent usage in several ancient philosophical traditions, which must also be weighed in considering the very subtle implications of its appellation to a set of ancient religious groups.






An alternate heritage is offered by Kurt Rudolph in his book Gnosis: The Nature & Structure of Gnosticism (Koehler and Amelang, Leipzig, 1977), to explain the lineage of Persian Gnostic schools. The decline of Manicheism that occurred in Persia in the 5th century AD/CE was too late to prevent the spread of the movement into the east and the west. In the west, the teachings of the school moved into Syria, Northern Arabia, Egypt and North Africa (where Augustine was a member of school from 373-382); from Syria it progressed still farther, into Palestine, Asia Minor and Armenia. There is evidence for Manicheans in Rome and Dalmatia in the 4th century, and also in Gaul and Spain. The influence of Manicheanism was attacked by imperial elects and polemical writings, but the religion remained prevalent until the 6th century, and still exerted influence in the emergence of the Paulicians, Bogomils and Cathari in the middle ages, until it was ultimately stamped out as a heresy by the Catholic Church.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnosticism



 

quote:Doc:  Gnosticism, in each of its many cleverly fabricated versions, has consistently been rejected by the Orthodox Christian Faith as a heresy from the time of gnosticism's initial appearance nearly 1,800 years ago. And in turn, it has also been rejected by most other Christian church denominations since then, finding both the gnostic doctrine and the methods based upon it to be erroneous and objectionable.

...for the love of God.


Doc, can you explain to me how the Catholic Church "stamped out" Manicheanism, in which St. Augustine was a member, considering the teachings heresy?  Was this before or after the crusades?  



VIL

[Etherfish]

Philip wrote:
"No one can understand the Bible, especially Genesis and Revelations without deep kabbalistic understandings."


Understanding of scriptures is like the layers of an onion. If one only understands the first layer, that person can still gain value from it. the value gained is congruent with one's depth of spiritual advancement, so it would be of no value to try to teach someone a deeper layer of the onion than they are ready to understand.
As we advance, these inner layers become apparent, as does a deeper understanding of all of existence. Studying symbolism only appeals to some people, and there are many other methods of peeling back the layers of understanding. I prefer simpler, less complex methods.
But even a small child can gain benefit from some teachings of jesus.

[Philip]

Hello Chrisi,

quote:Originally posted by Christi

I am only on a dial-up connection so unfortunately could not watch the video link that you posted. Do you have any links to websites that help people understand the bible based on an understanding of the kabbalah?

Christi

Actually, that link was for a DVD that you can order.

The following link provides many courses that are heavily steeped in the Gnostic Christian Kabbalah. In particular: Gnostic Kabbalah (Courses 1 - 4), The 22 Arcana, and the Gnostic Book of Revelation.

http://www.gnosticteachings.org/courses/

Now, the basis of Gnosis is Knowledge, yet knowledge of the type spoken of in Genesis, when "Adam knew Eve," not to far from the Tree of Knowledge. This is the Tree of Gnosis, Knowledge, which is Daath in Hebrew. Daath is tantrism. Of course nearly every "expert" will tell you that Daath has nothing to do with that, but that is because they do not possess tantric knowledge. Actually, there are some rabbis that know very well these things, but they do not tell others, and they don't practice what they know.

Adam and Eve represent (in the context of the biological organism) what is called Ida and Pingala in the east. Eve is the Lunar, Adam is the Solar. Adam is related with the mind, and the cerebral fluid. Eve is related with the sex, and the sexual fluids (endocrine system). The serpent of genesis is directly related with the kundalini, it is absoultely sexual. The serpent tempts Eve because she represents the sexual nature in every man and woman. The fall of Adam and Eve is the fall of one's own kundalini. Sex gave us knowledge of good and evil, yet we have become trapped in good and evil (which are just descriptors for evoloving and devolving energies).

Moses healed the Israelites (IS-RA-EL: Isis, Ra, Elohim) (representing the diverse aspects of ones inner being or atman that must become cognizant and integrated) by raising, of course, The Bronze Serpent. Jesus reminds us and says, "Just as Moses raises the Bronze Serpent, so must the Son of Man be risen." This is the kundalini. The Son of Man must rise in each and every person, so that the interior Jesus, which is the Tetragrammaton (IHVE - Jehova), with a SHIN (which means FIRE) so that his name is Yeshua (IHSVE), or savior, can save each and every person. The whole life of Jesus is a drama that must be played out in our soul, much like the Mahabarata is a war that we must wage against our own blood (ego).

Getting back on topic, the real process of the immaculate conception occurs when one gives birth first to "John the Baptist" and then "Jesus" within one's soul. This is a process that can only occur through sexual transmutation and psychological transformation. An immaculate conception is the birth through the Third Logos, Binah, the Holy Spirit, which in Hinduism is Shiva and his wife Shakti. The laboratory, or temple, of the Holy Spirit is the human body. The Holy Spirit works on the level of animal sexuality when we reach orgasm, and works on the level of a human being when one practices sexual transmutation. The true human being can procreate through Kryra-Shakti, in other words, through willpower. This was the method of procreation prior to the the fall of Adam and Eve.

Mary-Christ Mass to everyone!

[VIL]

Thanks for that, Philip.  Great post:  



VIL