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Support for AYP Deep Meditation and Samyama / Re: Evolving Style of Meditation
« Last post by AYPadmin on April 17, 2020, 08:38:51 AM »Cato
Germany
65 Posts
Posted - Jan 08 2020 : 08:32:44 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Get a Link to this Reply Delete Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Jim and His Karma
One day I added a pillow between my back and the wall. So comfortable. No concern about discipline or alignment (though, at this point, after years of asana, I sit up pretty straight just naturally). Just feels nice and toasty. Felt real good.
Just came across this old thread by Jim.
During spinal breathing pranayama, I realize that I tend to check the mudras and bandhas and also if the spine is still reasonably straight. I understand that this should be avoided in deep meditation (there aren't any mudras or bandhas to pay attention to, either). Would you say that it is okay during other practices (SBP, YMK etc.) to check mudras and bandas once in a while?
Dogboy
USA
1711 Posts
Posted - Jan 08 2020 : 12:28:15 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Get a Link to this Reply Delete Reply
quote:
Would you say that it is okay during other practices (SBP, YMK etc.) to check mudras and bandas once in a while?
Absolutely. SBP for me is like stretching before the meet. It is the excitation and direction of prana, and my transition to the mantra and stillness. I use all the mantra enhancements, so by the time I reach the end of the first complete intonation, it is as if I have pushed away from the dock.
I, too, adjust as needed, touch my nose or tilt back my head, it does nothing to disturb my state; I am open to automatic movements, often lilting to and fro like kelp in a tidal pool. The mantra is a reliable tether in the currents.
No wonder this spills over into my asana class; often my fingers to flutter in outstretched poses. By scanning the body and encouraging it to open to serendipitous expression, one?s interior and exterior become harmonious. I endeavor to make my yoga as playful and unselfconscious as a child would, liberating my joy if nothing else! Like Jim AHK, I have vivid recollection of some play as a youth that could easily be labeled as ?yoga practice?.
Edited by - Dogboy on Jan 08 2020 12:31:59 PM
Jim and His Karma
2107 Posts
Posted - Jan 11 2020 : 8:29:21 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Get a Link to this Reply Delete Reply
Computer people have a term, "cruft", referring to leftover, redundant, legacy elements in computer code that outlive their usefulness (or were never really useful to being with). Cruft gets in the way and weighs it all down and is superfluous and dysfunctional. It's sort of like "bloat".
Our practices inevitably pick up cruft over time, and it's not a good thing. Especially AYP, which is so pointedly simple, picks up complication like a paper cone accumulating strands of spinning cotton candy. We HATE simplicity, and are viscerally driven to complicate it. Human beings are incapable of just letting simplicity be. Complication and dramatization are what we're here for, and we even apply them to our yoga process of simplification and de-dramatization. We dramatize the simplification and complicate the de-dramatization.
When it comes to AYP, I have tricks to reverse this process (I reread the lessons, do practices in a very different setting, e.g. on a subway, or I take a week off and restart), and it feels like scraping barnacles off a boat hull. As with boat ownership, the scraping never, ever ends.
And the surprising thing is that the bright, cheerful super-positive and poetic and beautiful cruft is the most insidious. Dogboy, what a lovely picture you've painted! But I'm not gunning for loveliness. That, too, is cruft. None of that stuff is in the lesson; it's not part of the SBP practice. There are 10 billion other lovely perspectives and actions that aren't part of the practice. When you do the practice, part of the practice is to do the practice and not willingly add STUFF (aka cruft) onto it.
It's comparatively easy to let go of negative impulses. It's harder to let go of positivity, and most seekers will let go of their spiritual platitudes only when they're pried from their cold dead hands.
Cato, the mind has a billion strings to pull, and the super-yogic seeming ones ("straighten spine! Check in on mudras and bandhas!") are just more of that. To paraphrase Yogani, if, during practice, Patanjali roars past you on an iridescent stallion while the clouds part and Indra lovingly commands you to do this or that, deem it just another offramp - like an itchy armpit - and return to practice. Super duper yogic distractions are still distractions. Don't get punked.
Agreed that it's slightly more tolerable in spinal breathing than in meditation, but when you let cruft build up in certain zones, it has a tendency to backsplash. Yoga is a wanton holistic letting go, so beware of self-flattering spiritual-seeming modes of holding on.
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Jan 11 2020 10:24:31 PM
Jim and His Karma
2107 Posts
Posted - Jan 11 2020 : 8:51:28 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Get a Link to this Reply Delete Reply
Cato -
Taking another take, in case it's clearer for you:
The practices facilitate letting go. If you're hanging on in order to facilitate the practices, you're backwards.
Dogboy
USA
1711 Posts
Posted - Jan 12 2020 : 4:04:25 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Get a Link to this Reply Delete Reply
Noted!
Blanche
USA
606 Posts
Posted - Jan 14 2020 : 8:47:08 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit Blanche's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Get a Link to this Reply Delete Reply
Or another way to put it: If you still worry about mudras, bandhas, and posture in the middle of the spinal breathing, you are not fully doing the practice. There is some part of your attention left outside the practice to get involved in distractions. It is not about avoiding distractions, as "avoidance" is just another form of distraction. It is about naturally paying attention to the practice, the same way you would pay attention to a movie or to a game, and completely lose track of everything else, not because you try hard to pay attention, but because your attention effortlessly flows to the most interesting thing.
You may check your posture, mudras, and bandhas before you start spinal breathing, and then completely give yourself to the practice. If in the middle of the practice a thought comes up, "what about my posture?," treat it as any other distraction, let it pass by, and simply come back to the practice.
Edited by - Blanche on Jan 14 2020 10:40:05 PM
Dogboy
USA
1711 Posts
Posted - Jan 14 2020 : 9:07:33 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Get a Link to this Reply Delete Reply
Well said Blanche
Blanche
USA
606 Posts
Posted - Jan 16 2020 : 8:42:18 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit Blanche's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Get a Link to this Reply Delete Reply
![[/\]](http://www.aypsite.com/plus-forum/Smileys/akyhne/namaste.gif "Namaste (guru in you)")
Christi
United Kingdom
3684 Posts
Posted - Jan 17 2020 : 05:16:39 AM Show Profile Email Poster Visit Christi's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Get a Link to this Reply Delete Reply
Hi Cato,
quote:
During spinal breathing pranayama, I realize that I tend to check the mudras and bandhas and also if the spine is still reasonably straight. I understand that this should be avoided in deep meditation (there aren't any mudras or bandhas to pay attention to, either). Would you say that it is okay during other practices (SBP, YMK etc.) to check mudras and bandas once in a while?
As with all the AYP practices, there can be a "clunky" stage when taking on any new practice. During this period, we will have a number of things going on that we are not used to and so we need to be checking what we are doing. But this then settles down after a while and things begin to become natural and automatic, simply happening in the background.
With Deep Meditation, we can use mudras and bandhas, if they are happening automatically, and are not too distracting to the easy procedure of bringing the attention back to the mantra, whenever we realize we are off it. If they are causing too much of a distraction, due to the increased flows of ecstasy in the body, then they can be left out of the practice.
Christi
Presence Light
Algeria
11 Posts
Posted - Jan 17 2020 : 08:34:43 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Get a Link to this Reply Delete Reply
kensbikes100
USA
156 Posts
Posted - Mar 22 2020 : 09:55:53 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Get a Link to this Reply Delete Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Dogboy
Germany
65 Posts
Posted - Jan 08 2020 : 08:32:44 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Get a Link to this Reply Delete Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Jim and His Karma
One day I added a pillow between my back and the wall. So comfortable. No concern about discipline or alignment (though, at this point, after years of asana, I sit up pretty straight just naturally). Just feels nice and toasty. Felt real good.
Just came across this old thread by Jim.
During spinal breathing pranayama, I realize that I tend to check the mudras and bandhas and also if the spine is still reasonably straight. I understand that this should be avoided in deep meditation (there aren't any mudras or bandhas to pay attention to, either). Would you say that it is okay during other practices (SBP, YMK etc.) to check mudras and bandas once in a while?
Dogboy
USA
1711 Posts
Posted - Jan 08 2020 : 12:28:15 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Get a Link to this Reply Delete Reply
quote:
Would you say that it is okay during other practices (SBP, YMK etc.) to check mudras and bandas once in a while?
Absolutely. SBP for me is like stretching before the meet. It is the excitation and direction of prana, and my transition to the mantra and stillness. I use all the mantra enhancements, so by the time I reach the end of the first complete intonation, it is as if I have pushed away from the dock.
I, too, adjust as needed, touch my nose or tilt back my head, it does nothing to disturb my state; I am open to automatic movements, often lilting to and fro like kelp in a tidal pool. The mantra is a reliable tether in the currents.
No wonder this spills over into my asana class; often my fingers to flutter in outstretched poses. By scanning the body and encouraging it to open to serendipitous expression, one?s interior and exterior become harmonious. I endeavor to make my yoga as playful and unselfconscious as a child would, liberating my joy if nothing else! Like Jim AHK, I have vivid recollection of some play as a youth that could easily be labeled as ?yoga practice?.
Edited by - Dogboy on Jan 08 2020 12:31:59 PM
Jim and His Karma
2107 Posts
Posted - Jan 11 2020 : 8:29:21 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Get a Link to this Reply Delete Reply
Computer people have a term, "cruft", referring to leftover, redundant, legacy elements in computer code that outlive their usefulness (or were never really useful to being with). Cruft gets in the way and weighs it all down and is superfluous and dysfunctional. It's sort of like "bloat".
Our practices inevitably pick up cruft over time, and it's not a good thing. Especially AYP, which is so pointedly simple, picks up complication like a paper cone accumulating strands of spinning cotton candy. We HATE simplicity, and are viscerally driven to complicate it. Human beings are incapable of just letting simplicity be. Complication and dramatization are what we're here for, and we even apply them to our yoga process of simplification and de-dramatization. We dramatize the simplification and complicate the de-dramatization.
When it comes to AYP, I have tricks to reverse this process (I reread the lessons, do practices in a very different setting, e.g. on a subway, or I take a week off and restart), and it feels like scraping barnacles off a boat hull. As with boat ownership, the scraping never, ever ends.
And the surprising thing is that the bright, cheerful super-positive and poetic and beautiful cruft is the most insidious. Dogboy, what a lovely picture you've painted! But I'm not gunning for loveliness. That, too, is cruft. None of that stuff is in the lesson; it's not part of the SBP practice. There are 10 billion other lovely perspectives and actions that aren't part of the practice. When you do the practice, part of the practice is to do the practice and not willingly add STUFF (aka cruft) onto it.
It's comparatively easy to let go of negative impulses. It's harder to let go of positivity, and most seekers will let go of their spiritual platitudes only when they're pried from their cold dead hands.
Cato, the mind has a billion strings to pull, and the super-yogic seeming ones ("straighten spine! Check in on mudras and bandhas!") are just more of that. To paraphrase Yogani, if, during practice, Patanjali roars past you on an iridescent stallion while the clouds part and Indra lovingly commands you to do this or that, deem it just another offramp - like an itchy armpit - and return to practice. Super duper yogic distractions are still distractions. Don't get punked.
Agreed that it's slightly more tolerable in spinal breathing than in meditation, but when you let cruft build up in certain zones, it has a tendency to backsplash. Yoga is a wanton holistic letting go, so beware of self-flattering spiritual-seeming modes of holding on.
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Jan 11 2020 10:24:31 PM
Jim and His Karma
2107 Posts
Posted - Jan 11 2020 : 8:51:28 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Get a Link to this Reply Delete Reply
Cato -
Taking another take, in case it's clearer for you:
The practices facilitate letting go. If you're hanging on in order to facilitate the practices, you're backwards.
Dogboy
USA
1711 Posts
Posted - Jan 12 2020 : 4:04:25 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Get a Link to this Reply Delete Reply
Noted!
Blanche
USA
606 Posts
Posted - Jan 14 2020 : 8:47:08 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit Blanche's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Get a Link to this Reply Delete Reply
Or another way to put it: If you still worry about mudras, bandhas, and posture in the middle of the spinal breathing, you are not fully doing the practice. There is some part of your attention left outside the practice to get involved in distractions. It is not about avoiding distractions, as "avoidance" is just another form of distraction. It is about naturally paying attention to the practice, the same way you would pay attention to a movie or to a game, and completely lose track of everything else, not because you try hard to pay attention, but because your attention effortlessly flows to the most interesting thing.
You may check your posture, mudras, and bandhas before you start spinal breathing, and then completely give yourself to the practice. If in the middle of the practice a thought comes up, "what about my posture?," treat it as any other distraction, let it pass by, and simply come back to the practice.
Edited by - Blanche on Jan 14 2020 10:40:05 PM
Dogboy
USA
1711 Posts
Posted - Jan 14 2020 : 9:07:33 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Get a Link to this Reply Delete Reply
Well said Blanche
Blanche
USA
606 Posts
Posted - Jan 16 2020 : 8:42:18 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit Blanche's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Get a Link to this Reply Delete Reply
Christi
United Kingdom
3684 Posts
Posted - Jan 17 2020 : 05:16:39 AM Show Profile Email Poster Visit Christi's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Get a Link to this Reply Delete Reply
Hi Cato,
quote:
During spinal breathing pranayama, I realize that I tend to check the mudras and bandhas and also if the spine is still reasonably straight. I understand that this should be avoided in deep meditation (there aren't any mudras or bandhas to pay attention to, either). Would you say that it is okay during other practices (SBP, YMK etc.) to check mudras and bandas once in a while?
As with all the AYP practices, there can be a "clunky" stage when taking on any new practice. During this period, we will have a number of things going on that we are not used to and so we need to be checking what we are doing. But this then settles down after a while and things begin to become natural and automatic, simply happening in the background.
With Deep Meditation, we can use mudras and bandhas, if they are happening automatically, and are not too distracting to the easy procedure of bringing the attention back to the mantra, whenever we realize we are off it. If they are causing too much of a distraction, due to the increased flows of ecstasy in the body, then they can be left out of the practice.
Christi
Presence Light
Algeria
11 Posts
Posted - Jan 17 2020 : 08:34:43 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Get a Link to this Reply Delete Reply
kensbikes100
USA
156 Posts
Posted - Mar 22 2020 : 09:55:53 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Get a Link to this Reply Delete Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Dogboy
Quote
... I am open to automatic movements, often lilting to and fro like kelp in a tidal pool. The mantra is a reliable tether in the currents.
No wonder this spills over into my asana class; often my fingers to flutter in outstretched poses. By scanning the body and encouraging it to open to serendipitous expression, one?s interior and exterior become harmonious. I endeavor to make my yoga as playful and unselfconscious as a child would, liberating my joy if nothing else! Like Jim AHK, I have vivid recollection of some play as a youth that could easily be labeled as ?yoga practice?.
Meditate and become kelp! Cute and poetic, and an apt metaphor!
Since starting Iyengar asana classes several years ago, and failing to find a nice comfy chair to meditate i, I've been doing DM and pranayama (and now ?) in siddhasana on a small carpet with a wool pad for my sitbones and ankles, plus a small pillow between my sacrum and the baseboard of my wall. My back tends to become more vertical and abs to tighten as it goes on, and my awareness of the mantra decreases. I know if I am on it or off, but I'm often not sure which one I'm on, the ? one or ayam. I've decided it doesn't matter since I definitely have energy flow and sometimes complete zone-outs, and my sense of relaxation and refreshment afterwards is very strong.
But in my asana practice sessions, I sometimes spontaneously start pranayama breathing and even to raise energy up from the root, and to straighten my back as in pranayama. When I do, my core tightens more completely and I can go deeper in forward-bending asanas. I also balance with more stability in Tree Pose and other one-legged balance asanas.
kensbikes100
USA
156 Posts
Posted - Mar 22 2020 : 10:03:36 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Get a Link to this Reply Delete Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Jim and His Karma
Computer people have a term, "cruft", ...
Aaaand I have to say I am moved by Jim's last post here to check my ideas and see if I am bringing forward my beloved cruft.
Cato
Germany
65 Posts
Posted - Mar 23 2020 : 04:00:39 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Get a Link to this Reply Delete Reply
Thanks everybody for your valuable input.