robg
New Zealand
4 Posts
Posted - Nov 21 2015 : 4:31:37 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Topic Reply with Quote View user's IP address Get a Link to this Message Delete Topic
Hi everyone, I'm new to this forum but have been doing (or trying to) SBP and DM for over 3.5 years. In general I am a thousand times happier, more relaxed and more competent in my life. Everything is better and I am very grateful I found Yogani's books online.
BUT ...I have never found the pranayama practice easy and still don't. Half the time my visualisation of the spine and energy jumps to the side a couple of inches as if I was on the wrong track. I feel tense and short of breath, I finish and realise my shoulders are tensed up around my ears somewhere and if I'm honest (scared to admit it to all the experts) I don't think I've ever really got the flow or feeling of energy rising and falling, just a big, tense, breathless struggle! I probably need to start all over but don't really relish the thought after such a long time. Can anyone help? Thank you, much love
BlueRaincoat
United Kingdom
1491 Posts
Posted - Nov 21 2015 : 5:03:23 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Get a Link to this Reply Delete Reply
Hi robg, welcome to the forum!
It sounds like you are getting wonderful results form your AYP practice. That is really what matters.
Here's a suggestion for your SBP practice: just place your attention at the base of the spine at the end of each exhalation and at the brow at the end of each inhalation. Don't worry if you feel any other parts of the spine in between - if you do fine, if you don't that's fine too. Try that and see if you can relax into it. Do this for a number of sessions and let us know how it goes.
Enjoy your practice
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jusmail
India
467 Posts
Posted - Nov 21 2015 : 6:16:26 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Get a Link to this Reply Delete Reply
Welcome to the forum. Also you can try Spinal bastrika pranayama and/or chin pump to clear the root-to-brow pathway.
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jonesboy
USA
594 Posts
Posted - Nov 21 2015 : 6:39:21 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit jonesboy's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Get a Link to this Reply Delete Reply
Hi robg,
I think you are doing great.
I suck at visualization also. I just could never do it. Maybe at the start, maybe at the ends, but never up and down the spine.
Try feeling the energy going up and down the spine. The spots it is skipping or moving around are your obstructions. You are feeling them is all.
Nope your not going to blast through them so just go with the flow up and dos and if you skip areas not worry. Over time you will see how that changes. It is also ok to start visualizing the energy and then switching to feeling or vice versa.
Being tense is a big deal.
Their is no way around this. You have to learn to let go.
This may sound cheesy but before pranayama try putting your awareness in your body. Start at your feet and relax them, then the ankles,calves,thighs etc...
This is something I use to do at the beginning of meditation. It has helped my back issues but more importantly it teaches you to reside in your body and to let go.
To me that's is what all this is about. How well can you let go of everything.
Hope this helps,
Tom
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alecpeace
USA
95 Posts
Posted - Nov 21 2015 : 11:38:58 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Get a Link to this Reply Delete Reply
quote:
Originally posted by robg
"I feel tense and short of breath"
"a big, tense, breathless struggle!"
That pretty much explains 50% of your issues. Seems like you're tracing the spine too slow. Try speeding it up a bit so that when you're at the top or bottom, you're not actually out of breath.
And as others have said, consciously remember to relax during your session.
I've had all the issues you do, exactly as you stated them. What I mentioned helped me, maybe it'll help you too.
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Dennis
USA
83 Posts
Posted - Nov 22 2015 : 12:39:27 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Get a Link to this Reply Delete Reply
With Yoga, it helps if you just relax and "melt" into it. Don't be mechanical with the practice.
I found that mulabandha started the energy going for me. At first it was hard and I clenched my muscles rather tightly. Once I got the hang of it, I can just barely tighten the root lock. As Yogani says, just the intention can do the trick.
When I breath in, i feel like I'm sucking energy and sending it upwards. Sambavi or even how you use your eyes can make a difference. I can get more energy going by willing it, feeling it with my imagination.
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Ecdyonurus
Switzerland
479 Posts
Posted - Nov 22 2015 : 03:21:32 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Get a Link to this Reply Delete Reply
Hi robg, welcome! Great to read that you experienced such big improvements in your daily life! This means that yor practices inluding SBP cannot be completely wrong, dont'you think?
I second alecpeace'advice. Try to trace the spine a little bit faster than you usually do. Do SBP like a dance, smooth and stopless. In the beginning I struggled a lot with SBP because I forced myself to go very slow, because I assumed that a very low speed was important. Actually I misunderstood the lessons on that: Yogani states that one should find a slow AND comfortable speed in SBP. As soon as I decided to favour comfort, the right breathing speed came naturally, and the strain was gone.
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Mykal K
Germany
265 Posts
Posted - Nov 22 2015 : 05:46:07 AM Show Profile Email Poster Visit Mykal K's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Get a Link to this Reply Delete Reply
Hi RobQ,
I think I had the exact same problem. Found this solution very helpful: Discussion with Yogani on reversed flow in Pranayama.
Edited by - Mykal K on Nov 22 2015 08:56:10 AM
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kumar ul islam
United Kingdom
674 Posts
Posted - Nov 22 2015 : 06:01:05 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Get a Link to this Reply Delete Reply
for me the breath is only the trigger, pranayama the physical aspect of the movement of inner energy at points my breath suspends but i favour the practice of following the rise and fall of breath not neccessaraly visualizing anything for me its more about feeling this, an intuitive subtle movement from pranayama into deep meditation i have found the two merge and the transition between the two is blured and by the time the mantra is on cue i am already on a level a groove ,for me the rise of prana is in the subtle body under the breath but using the breath as a control mechanism to understand this very vital force and recognizing its existence and letting it take its own way through a non aggressive approuch a simply favouring like looking at a flowing stream noticing its movement yet captured by its beauty
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Dogboy
USA
1589 Posts
Posted - Nov 22 2015 : 06:57:10 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Get a Link to this Reply Delete Reply
I do this all the time (especially "enjoy the practice" ) :
quote:
Here's a suggestion for your SBP practice: just place your attention at the base of the spine at the end of each exhalation and at the brow at the end of each inhalation. Don't worry if you feel any other parts of the spine in between - if you do fine, if you don't that's fine too. Try that and see if you can relax into it. Do this for a number of sessions and let us know how it goes.
Enjoy your practice
It quickly established the top and bottom of the breath, and the middle just happens on its own. Remember a canyon is etched by centuries of water passing daily, no need to carve it out by hand!
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uniath
Finland
26 Posts
Posted - Nov 22 2015 : 08:30:40 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Get a Link to this Reply Delete Reply
Hi robg!
Are you doing asanas prior to pranayama?
I?ve also had tenseness and shortness of breath. For me, the solution was adding an asana routine with deep, conscious breathing. It had a tremendous impact on pranayama that follows.
It might be due to a lot of sitting and a poor posture(been improving lately tho ), that the effect of asanas is so easily noticeable. It kinda opens me up, from the point of view of the nervous system and lung capacity.
ps. visualizing is no big deal, I can?t do it at all and progress is steady nevertheless
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BlueRaincoat
United Kingdom
1491 Posts
Posted - Nov 22 2015 : 09:05:16 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Get a Link to this Reply Delete Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Dogboy
I do this all the time (especially "enjoy the practice" )
Hiya Dogboy! Glad we think alike. Sounds like you're still getting high these days.
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Dogboy
USA
1589 Posts
Posted - Nov 22 2015 : 2:45:11 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Get a Link to this Reply Delete Reply
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So-Hi
USA
481 Posts
Posted - Nov 22 2015 : 3:23:33 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Get a Link to this Reply Delete Reply
Hi robg if at first you don't succeed and you try, try, try again success is not guaranteed.
It may be that Spinal Breathing is not something you should be doing. It is okay if it is not, how is the Deep Meditation working out?
Yogani will be the first to tell you Deep Meditation is most important in his system.
Don't beat yourself up Spinal Breathing is not for everyone, in fact I never do it or anything close to it any longer.
You see it was not for me. be free and do that which works for you it is the only thing that matters.
quote:
Originally posted by robg
Hi everyone, I'm new to this forum but have been doing (or trying to) SBP and DM for over 3.5 years. In general I am a thousand times happier, more relaxed and more competent in my life. Everything is better and I am very grateful I found Yogani's books online.
BUT ...I have never found the pranayama practice easy and still don't. Half the time my visualisation of the spine and energy jumps to the side a couple of inches as if I was on the wrong track. I feel tense and short of breath, I finish and realise my shoulders are tensed up around my ears somewhere and if I'm honest (scared to admit it to all the experts) I don't think I've ever really got the flow or feeling of energy rising and falling, just a big, tense, breathless struggle! I probably need to start all over but don't really relish the thought after such a long time. Can anyone help? Thank you, much love
Edited by - So-Hi on Nov 22 2015 3:51:18 PM
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robg
New Zealand
4 Posts
Posted - Nov 24 2015 : 02:40:00 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Get a Link to this Reply Delete Reply
quote:
Originally posted by BlueRaincoat
Hi robg, welcome to the forum!
It sounds like you are getting wonderful results form your AYP practice. That is really what matters.
Here's a suggestion for your SBP practice: just place your attention at the base of the spine at the end of each exhalation and at the brow at the end of each inhalation. Don't worry if you feel any other parts of the spine in between - if you do fine, if you don't that's fine too. Try that and see if you can relax into it. Do this for a number of sessions and let us know how it goes.
Man, I can't work out how to post a reply. Think this is it. Thank you BlueRaincoat , it's funny after I posted this the other day I read some of your advice in a popular post about visualisation vs breathing and it has already really helped. I wasn't really relaxed at first and had forgotten that I'd switched about a year and a half ago to trying to visualise the crown instead and also sitting up in a chair rather than cross-legged - something I'd been reading made me change (Kriya Yoga by Swami Yogananda I think) and I guess I got off track then. Anyway have tried visualising the third eye again instead and also doing nuali again which I'd also dropped. Whatever happens, I'll keep on trying to improve my practice because I can see what it is doing in my life. Thank you for the loving replies
Enjoy your practice
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robg
New Zealand
4 Posts
Posted - Nov 24 2015 : 03:09:04 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Get a Link to this Reply Delete Reply
Oh dear, as you can see I had trouble working out how to reply.
Hello first of all, I have been sneaking in and reading this forum from time to time and always enjoyed your advice - jones boy, BlueRaincoat, (famous? Haha) etc dog boy, all names that I like to read.
Thank you everyone for your kind and loving advice.
As I tried to reply to BlueRaincoat I realise I'd got off track about 18 months ago after reading Kriya Yoga by Yogananda and visualising the crown instead, and also stopped doing mulabanda and nuali. I also hadn't taken time to just sit, relax, and settle into sambavi first - I've tried this the last couple of days and it has already helped. Also good advice ecdyonurus and Dennis about slowing down, I will try that next session now that I've read the suggestion - I've always tried to go really slow because I thought it was 'better' . Mykal K I look forward to having a look at that link.
Thank you everyone, I will let you know how I get on in the next week or so but already I have got a lot out of this, mainly the support and to just relax and keep trying different ways, and I liked the quote Dogboy put in about water etching out a canyon after centuries, so true and a nice visual, I'll keep up my daily etching.
[edited by moderator for formatting only]
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robg
New Zealand
4 Posts
Posted - Nov 24 2015 : 03:11:01 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Get a Link to this Reply Delete Reply
Haha those numbers were meant to be shy smiley, and two hearts respectively.
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BlueRaincoat
United Kingdom
1491 Posts
Posted - Nov 24 2015 : 07:23:30 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Get a Link to this Reply Delete Reply
quote:
Originally posted by robg
BlueRaincoat, (famous? Haha)
Not the famous one, another one. And it doesn't matter a bit, since they're all on their way to being empty
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Apkallu
France
108 Posts
Posted - Nov 27 2015 : 07:16:19 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Get a Link to this Reply Delete Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Ecdyonurus
Hi robg, welcome! Great to read that you experienced such big improvements in your daily life! This means that yor practices inluding SBP cannot be completely wrong, dont'you think?
I second alecpeace'advice. Try to trace the spine a little bit faster than you usually do. Do SBP like a dance, smooth and stopless. In the beginning I struggled a lot with SBP because I forced myself to go very slow, because I assumed that a very low speed was important. Actually I misunderstood the lessons on that: Yogani states that one should find a slow AND comfortable speed in SBP. As soon as I decided to favour comfort, the right breathing speed came naturally, and the strain was gone.
Exactly !
It must always be comfortable.
When I started DM, I also took 30 seconds to consciously/mentally relax my body parts/muscles (scanning for tightness) before starting "AYAM"
Still do
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Ecdyonurus
Switzerland
479 Posts
Posted - Nov 27 2015 : 10:04:15 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Get a Link to this Reply Delete Reply
Hi Apkallu, I also do a similar short relaxation break both before DM and SBP. It is such a simple thing but it really makes a difference. This is even more evident between SBP and DM: if I dont relax for a while and just jump from SBP into DM the session becomes rough.
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lalow33
USA
946 Posts
Posted - Nov 27 2015 : 1:09:15 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Get a Link to this Reply Delete Reply
Hi robg,
You've gotten good advice. I've had similar problems. Making sure I do the exhale with ujayii (sp?) seems quite important for me. I noticed I wasn't always doing it.
My suggestion would be to shorten your practice time, forget about visualizing, and skip over the tense parts.
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krcqimpro1
India
329 Posts
Posted - Mar 29 2016 : 09:56:16 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Get a Link to this Reply Delete Reply
Hi robg,
I started AYP many years ago. At first I had the same problem as you. I then figured out a way to ensure my attention as I breathed in and out traveled smoothly along the spinal passage with hardly any break.
What I did was as follows:I sat in sidhdhasana in only my underwear, my torso remaining bare. I held a 16 to 18 inch long stick, nicely rounded at both ends ,in my left hand, and as I breathed I moved the tip of the stick up and down the spinal column (on the skin at my back in coordination with my breath). After reaching my neck, I tried and visualised the rest of the way to the eyebrow center and back, through imagination. The whole thing became smooth and easy. After a few months I was able to discard the stick and the process has gone on smoothly and easily, ever since. You might like to try it.
Krish
