"Ecstasy vs. Toxicity" Question

[Kirtanman]

Pre-PS ---- YES, this is a very long post --- but one of the most important situations / questions I may ever ask --- so thanks in advance for willingness to wade through -- and for any input you may have.

**

Per Meg's reply to my Kechari-related post -- my Bhakti is indeed loud these days -- and I am Bhav-in' out!

Heart-bangin' like there's no tomorrow with all the other kids in the Mahakash pit (well, there _is_ no tomorrow, but I suppose that's a topic for a whole 'nother post).

;-)

So, here's the deal:

BHAKTI PART

A couple of months ago, the "point between the eyebrows" assumed the "ON" position [I kinda-sorta thought it *might* be on before .... this is ON ... there's a .... difference .... as some of you know), and daily practices (specifically spinal breathing) has been helping to turn the etheric dimmer switch all the way UP, as follows:

In meditation, the bliss becomes SO powerful that my head tilts back (almost vertical -- i.e. face pointed toward the sky) and natural Sambhavi kicks in (along with Advanced Stage 1 Kechari) -- eyes go further up (in a very relaxed way - it's almost like their natural resting position reverses), and there's increased brightness and pleasure (with a capital .... "Whoa, Nelly!! Who knew??").

The sense of space / size inside the head increases significantly (at least double-triple, if not more) -- along with feelings of full-body bliss, specifically in the head (tingly forehead and-or crown at the skin level -- "WAY better than the morphine I got in the hospital with that kidney stone, but I can still drive -- woo-hoo" sensations on the inside, along with vastly increased and deeply pleasurable brightness and warmth, and major (yes, *that* major) pleasure in the eyes and tongue.

(And before I drive off the e-road under the weight of my own wordplay -- as tongue-in-cheek-y (or is that tongue-up- ..... ;-) ) as I tend to be ....... this [situation, in my life / practice ]is consummately serious, beautiful and sacred -- far beyond words ---- I truly had no idea that bliss to this degree was this literal -- and my gratitude and happiness truly feels boundless, as a result).

Does it feel like too much to handle?

Not in the slightest.

It feels like how I was born to live --- part of me always knew it _could_ be THIS good.

Final note on the Bhakti / Bliss side: I go by "Kirtanman" for a reason --- I spend a lot of time chanting in Sanskrit -- and experiencing (ever-more) resulting bliss --- so this (seemingly) "Mahananda" - "Megabliss" is an order of magnitude greater than what I've experienced until just a week or two ago --- but it's something I feel well-prepped for, and it all feels like a natural, if dramatic milestone in my practice / "personal" Realization "journey".

And on the BTFYSKT ("By Their Fruits Ye Shall Know Them" ;-) ) Index -- I seem to be doing okay:

*Negative emotions tend to be few and far between (dramatic change from even a few years ago).

*I'm known, pretty much everywhere I go - even at my office - as a loving, caring person - and (of course) feel genuine love for all people (with some egoic conditioning which "pops in and fizzles fast" every now and then.

*I don't ruffle much these days (i.e. barely, ever) - even during events like almost being broad-sided by a "vastly speeding" driver the other day, the death of my mother from lung cancer a few months ago, and a paycheck-reducing disagreement with the sometimes-almost-nice-people at the IRS.

And this is (seemingly) independent from the overt bliss - this is more long-term equanimity, which feels very conscious, right, good and balanced.

(And if it sounds like I'm "blowing my own horn" to anyone, please know: I genuinely feel / presume that all this detail may make a difference in helping those who "know the territory" to offer input -- and that is the only reason for going into all this.)

TOXICITY PART:

Yogically speaking, my diet _sucks_.

(Eating dinner as I write this, right before bed: single cheeseburger, Oreo frosty and chicken nuggets).

I tend a bit toward "eliminatory restriction" in the digestive department.

I've had a bout with swollen feet (though am not overweight - just a desk-jockey) to the point where I was medically concerned (for men in their forties, EKG and blood-work are standard with swollen feet -- and I had a bit of anemia, and elevated Creatine levels [normal now].

All of which is indicative of the "eats like crap and doesn't move too much" profile (of the average Silicon Valley Cube-Dweller.

MY ACTUAL QUESTION

Having read much about higher levels of Yogic (Shakti / Kundalini) energy being like trying to run 220 (or 2200) volts through a 110 volt outlet (in terms of the average practitioner's physical "purity" levels --- am I running some sort of clear / known risk by combining late-night burgers with ever-increasing levels of daily bliss?

Am I "fixin' to blow a fuse" ---- or is this an individual thing, where I can let my ..... inner guide .... be my guide?

For instance, the teacher many of us think of as our "local enlightened guy" (he's the real deal* -- www.adyashanti.org ) is a former semi-pro cyclist (in very good shape) who also enjoys a hot dog place by the name of Happy Hound, every so often -- and spent his last Satsang riffing a bit on Fritos ("You'd never hear me say I'm giving up Fritos, because .... well .... for one, it's not going to happen ....).

So, while his overall diet and physical condition is likely better than mine, he's fully realized - and he consumes hot dogs and Fritos, at least every so often.

*In the last few months I've noticed that whether someone is enlightened or not is no longer a matter of guesswork. They all radiate light, all of sudden --- in many beautiful colors, at certain points.

No kidding.

No chemicals.

;-)

(i.e. seems to be part of the "Bhakti Set to HIGH" thing -- and I'm fine with it -- it's very nice, actually.)

So --- any comments?

Cheers & Namaste,

Kirtanman

[Manipura]

whew!  Made it through your post!    I eat late too, but not as late as you, and not burgers-n-oreos.  You must have nightmares, huh?  Your diet doesn't seem to be affecting your energy level or bhakti, but it's not optimizing the purification bit.  What you put into your body is important. (did I really just write that?)    Maybe I should go back to your post and search for a question.  You're thinking of snipping your frenum, right?  Kechari will take all of your blissed-outedness to an even deeper level than what you're already experiencing.  You may have to self-pace with all of this ecstasy running through you.  It's cumulative, and some here have had the experience of circuit overload.  Just a possibility - it may not happen to you.

[Shanti]

Hi Kirtanman,
Welcome to the forum.

All your experiences sound very good.. you sure have a lot of purification going on and you are definitely moving in the right direction (but I guess you know that already ). Just continue what you are doing, and at a certain point in your life you will not feel like having those late night "single cheeseburger, Oreo frosty and chicken nuggets".. it will just come naturally. Don't think too much about it.. the more you let  your mind think.. Oh! this is wrong I should not do this.. the stronger your cravings will get. If possible, cut down on the junk food intake.. slowly.. little bit at a time.. but don't try to give it up till it comes to you from the inside.

This is one of the great things of AYP.. we don't try to become good people first and then get spiritual.. we jump into spirituality.. and everything else just falls in place
Look here
As long as you continue your practice with bhakti.. everything else will follow..

[alan]

Hi Kirtanman

I'm inspired by your recent developments

If you feel like sharing on a subject on which I think you might help enlighten us, would you please give your opinion on the "enlightenment?" thread in the satsang cafe? I'm refering to the thread that Meg started as there are two threads with "enlightenment" in the titles.

Peace, alan

[david_obsidian]

Hello Kirtanman,

my own experience was that a certain point (which happened to be almost immediately actually, but I'm not so sure it matters) after I started to take up meditation,  my body began to insist that I treat it well.  There's a good chance that at some point your body will do the same.

Should you go on a better diet?  Well a better diet is always good -- by definition.    So that's a matter of priorities for you.  I'd also recommend taking up exercise such as sun salutation too if you are too sedentary.

What would a better diet be for you?  Well,  first priority might be to drop the excess sugars, as in the Oreos.  For most people, most of the time,  a 'better diet' means a lighter one,  (with less meat) and lots of fruit and vegetables however if you have a lot of purification going on,  sometimes it is better to actually go for a heavier diet to ground you.  And what is the optimum?  Who can say.  But I reckon it is purer than you are eating now (less trash) and probably a bit lighter at least.

Now to answer your actual question:

am I running some sort of clear / known risk by combining late-night burgers with ever-increasing levels of daily bliss?

My short answer is, in this your case anyway,  probably not.  It's more likely that the crud coming into your system in the form of food just slows down your progress.

[Etherfish]

Sounds great; welcome.
I would'nt force-change your diet, but it would be interesting to eat healthy like salad a day or two and see what happens. then return to regular. I eat a lot of raw veggies in salad, but some bad stuff too in between and it digests better.

"with some egoic conditioning which "pops in and fizzles fast" every now and then."

I have this theory that egos are necessary because I think we tend to pay too much attention to others and neglect ourselves without them. What do you think?

[breathe]

Hi Kirtanman,
Great to read your post. I am a big fan of Adya as well. You are right, he is the real deal -- and he is also a garbage gut. I suspect however, that by now his digestive system produces a lot of Soma and he can probably handle it alright. He did say on a CD I was listening to recently that it took about 12 years for his body to adjust to being Awake. Once you Wake up, he said, a huge amount of energy is downloaded into your system and it takes time to integrate it. I suspect his 12 years might have been shorter had he fed his body better. I have started working with some people (www.kundalinicare.com)who emphsize the importance of your diet, exercise, herb intake etc. to support the kundalini process. They might be worth checking out. Eating a lot of garbage is a great way to numb out. With all the shakti you are experiencing right now, the tendency to do that could be very strong. I would probably try and exercise more and gradually improve the diet. Toxins crave toxins. Just getting more physically fit could go a long way towards getting control over what you desire to put inside your body. Cheers & keep the juice flowin! Tom

[Kirtanman]

Welcome to the forum.

Thanks!



If possible, cut down on the junk food intake.. slowly.. little bit at a time.. but don't try to give it up till it comes to you from the inside.

Believe it or not   ... this is already happening; just a little, but it definitely is -- for instance, I've been incorporating wheatgrass into my diet, along with choosing, say a turkey sandwich over a burger (hey, it's a start .... ;-) ).

This is one of the great things of AYP.. we don't try to become good people first and then get spiritual.. we jump into spirituality.. and everything else just falls in place

I get that ... which is one of the reasons I'm here.

Maybe I should clarify a little -- what I wrote about toxicity is not a moral / spiritual judgment thing, at all -- purely a pragmatic one.

Imagine if this was the "Marathon Runner's Forum" (which in terms of moving toward enlightenment via yogic practices, it seems to be! ) - and instead of what I wrote about junk food, I had written the following:

"Hey, fellow marathoners - I'm really doing great, and my 13-mile practice runs [purely an analogy, mind you --- heck, I had a hard time *driving* 13 miles .... ;-) ] are progressing well, but I'm wondering if freebasing cocaine is really the most conducive behavior, regarding my overall goals? Am I possibly setting myself up for something bad to happen?"

THAT'S kind of how I've been looking at the junk food thing, vis a vis bodily purity -- i.e. is it analogous to freebasing cocaine while training for a marathon or literally driving down the freeway with the parking brake on (my car's transmission could well end up less than perfectly operational, yes?).

Or, is it more as you say -- kind of self-regulating, where my bhakti and related neurophysiological (how's that for a ten-dollar word for "bodily"? ;-) ) gains will naturally guide me to a "lighter" (in pretty much every sense of the word) diet, ahead of my need for more "purity", which will be needed to handle the greater levels of ecstatic conductivity?

Hence my question(s).



Look here
As long as you continue your practice with bhakti.. everything else will follow..
[/quote]

Again -- Thanks!

I did look at the link -- and related Samyama practice, which I have actually not been doing as part of my sitting practice (time to start! -- amazing how that happens --- the info falls into your lap at exactly the right time .... ).

Namaste,

Kirtanman

[Kirtanman]

I have this theory that egos are necessary because I think we tend to pay too much attention to others and neglect ourselves without them. What do you think?
[/quote]

As my buddy Adyashanti (http://www.adyashanti.org ) says, "Sense of self is an operational necessity" - which may be different than ego, depending upon how the terms are used.

"Sense of self" is the reason we turn our head when our name is called, or duck when someone takes a swing at us --- without that (or "ego" by some definitions) -- we wouldn't react if our name was called, and wouldn't duck if someone took a swing at us.)

In my experience / awareness, ego-lessness [the kind lived by those with a high degree of spiritual development / enlightenment, depending upon the terms you prefer] results in balance, inner-strength and genuine loving-kindness / loving-service -- which does *not* always mean complying with the requests or demands of others.

If a given enlightened person is asked to do something that doesn't fit [with the flow of Life / Truth at the moment, in their experience], they kindly say, "No".

Englightenment moves in harmony with Truth - always -- and sometimes truth looks like Kali, or the "love of the surgeon" - who doesn't hesitate to cut, if cutting is needed to help someone - even if they know pain will result, temporarily.

Ego, on the other hand, often does things it doesn't want to do, either to try to gain pleasure / reward in some way, or avoid pain.

So, that's my "2 cents" worth, which boils down to respectful disagreement with your thesis.



A friend of mine recently expressed that she was scared of losing her sense of self as her meditation practice progressed -- and I have tasted this reality --- sense of self being utterly absent -- for brief periods of "time", in meditation -- and my comment to her was:

"All I can tell you is that when the sense of self goes away, it's not worse -- it's BETTER."

And I realize that this may appear to conflict with what I wrote above -- but it doesn't. Ultimately (to paraphrase Adya once again -- his stuff is great from a "getting it from the horse's mouth" standpoint) - he says, "The ego is not like a "mini-me", as a lot of people think -- it's more like hunger." (meaning: it's a useful motivator at times - but when it is assuaged, it goes away).

In deep meditation, it's appropriate for sense of self to be totally absent --- driving down the freeway, maybe less so.

For instance, people with crappy diets (yes, I've heard they exist ... ) actually feel hunger when there's no good reason to feel it -- just as many of us feel egoic impulse when there's no good reason for that, either.

When Enlightened, my general sense is that we experience sense of self / ego as needed --- but *not* a disproportionately high amount of the time, as those of us still (sometimes ... ) "sleeping within the dream" experience.

I hope that's helpful.

Namaste,

Kirtanman

PS --- Being new here, I'm not sure how Yogani manages "thread creep" - but please note: I *do* try to stay on topic --- I was just answering the question (hopefully). If we want to continue this dialog, maybe we should do so in Satsang Cafe, where some other good ego / enlightenment stuff is being discussed.

[david_obsidian]

Good food for thought Kirtanman.

BTW,  I tend to avoid the catch-it-all term 'ego'.  It means too many different things to too many people.

Regarding topic creep,  the moderators will sometimes split a topic away if necessary.  But of necessity, there is fair amount of tolerance for topic creep.

[Kirtanman]

Hey Tom -- I've been moving pretty fast this week, and actually missed this response (until now).

Re both Adya and Diet --- "way cool" and thanks!