2 different aspects of Non-Duality experience???

[beetsmyth]

Ok, first off to give a quick background, I have been experiencing off and on glimpses of non-duality where there no longer is an 'I' for the last 4-5 months.

Now in this experience, its as if there is this nothingness, emptiness, awareness as the only reality. The glimpse disappears when the mind comes in to try and figure it out or analyze it. So on to the 2 experiences;

1. It's as if there is only Non-Duality ...but somewhere within there is a projector projecting the mind and the illusion of seperation. All is emptiness, nothingness, awareness.

2. Sharing the self-inquiry technique with a friend, he was able to trace down the ego and got a glimpse of non-duality also but his was of an all pervading light, full of infinite tremendous energy and effulgence.

He knew nothing of what I had experienced and I knew nothing of what he had experienced. My instinct thought that perhaps there is a crossroads and I did a google search and the only place I could find this mentioned is by Da Free John aka Adi Da:

"In the Great Tradition of religion and Spirituality, there have been two fundamental "camps"—the "vertical" and the "horizontal", or those who seek the Divine by going "up" and those who seek the Divine by going "within". What makes Avatar Adi Da’s Revelation of the Way of Adidam utterly unique is His "Disclosure" that, although both the vertical and the horizontal approaches are capable of resulting in a true glimpse of the Divine (or of Perfect Truth), neither the vertical nor the horizontal approach can lead to most perfect Divine Enlightenment (which is permanent, or eternal). Only the simultaneous Realization of the Divine in both "locations"—the infinitely ascended Source–Matrix of Divine Light and the right side of the heart (or both "terminals" of Amrita Nadi)—is most perfect (and eternal) Divine Enlightenment. Only the Full and Indivisible Realization of the Divine as Conscious Light (Consciousness and Light) is most perfect (and eternal) Divine Enlightenment. Such is the infinitely glorious Realization Given by Avatar Adi Da to His devotees who complete the entire process of the Way of Adidam. That Realization has never been known before Avatar Adi Da’s Appearance in the world and His Gift of the Way of Adidam. Such is the culmination of the searchless process of simply Beholding Avatar Adi Da, the bodily (human) Incarnation of the "Bright" Itself."

Now this was great, because I suspected that the ego/mind/illusory self is projected via some kind of channel (I now find in many text referred to as the Amrita Nadi ....not be confused with Amrita/Soma which drips down after Kechari Mudra)

But I have to say ...though my glimpses are magnificent and there is no place with more freedom that I'd rather be in ..than permanent realized non-duality ...the Light/Energy/Love aspect of it seems to be the part missing in these glimpses that come from going within ...but it eludes me as to what is referred to as this Light. Other the non-duality glimpses ...for the past year I have been in dispassion ..neither moved by sadness or happiness ...just plain neutral awareness.

Am I missing something or should I just trust and continue with the self inquiry?

[porcupine]

love is crazy

[Ananda]

hi beetsmyth, i experience both of the stuff you mentioned and i've been at it for a long time now but the melting in white light has begun in the last few months and it usually happens when i wake up from sleep and rarely during practice... oh and i forgot to mention that i am not an Adi da devotee but an AYP guy and even though i disagree with Adi da's behavior but the guy has wrote some serious stuff and has presented a wealth of spiritual knowledge and that should not be taken lightly.

the light is the Shakti element and silence is Shiva and here at AYP we have them both and in the end it's the union of both; it's the union of bliss and ecstasy which results in the birth of never ending divine outpouring love and of that as well i got some true glimpses and these glimpses alone are enough for me to practice for an infinite number of lifetimes in order to achieve such an abiding realization...

http://www.aypsite.com/plus/35.html

namaste

[Parallax]

quote:Originally posted by Ananda

the light is the Shakti element and silence is Shiva and here at AYP we have them both and in the end it's the union of both; it's the union of bliss and ecstasy which results in the birth of never ending divine outpouring love and of that as well i got some true glimpses and these glimpses alone are enough for me to practice for an infinite number of lifetimes in order to achieve such an abiding realization...

Beautiful Ananda...count me in!!

[Kirtanman]

Loving is the only sanity.

[Tibetan_Ice]

quote:Originally posted by beetsmyth
...
But I have to say ...though my glimpses are magnificent and there is no place with more freedom that I'd rather be in ..than permanent realized non-duality ...the Light/Energy/Love aspect of it seems to be the part missing in these glimpses that come from going within ...but it eludes me as to what is referred to as this Light. Other the non-duality glimpses ...for the past year I have been in dispassion ..neither moved by sadness or happiness ...just plain neutral awareness.
...

Hi beetsmyth,
  Here is a link that might shed some light on this subject (pun intended)..  http://www.near-death.com/experiences/cayce12.html
 

  I have discovered how to find the light. It is a very bright white light that resembles a star with pointy beams emanating outwards. It is like a pure radiant being of divine energy.  It is not located at the third eye, but more towards the back of the head somewhere around the bindhu.

  Here is how I do it:
  - I sit in my usual meditation posture

  - I clear my head and repeat the mantra subvocally. I identify the location in my head from where the mantra is coming from . I make the mantra very clear and short when I do this. I use the "I AM" mantra.

  - When you repeat the mantra this way, it wants to tie itself to the breath. You may find yourself breathing out along with the mantra.

  - Next, I take the mantra to a 'thought' level. I think the mantra, very lightly and I identify the location from where the thought comes. At this point, it becomes a location that I can see. As I think the mantra, between mantra repetitions, I am very quiet and still and I try to identify where that thought is coming from. At this point, if you are successful, you will notice that breathing contiues on it's own and there is no more "trying to match the mantra with breathing".

  - I noticed a while back that the mantra (or any thought) seems to come from a deeper place first and then it hits consciousness and then the brain acts it out or manifests it. This deeper place is where we are going... beyond the subconscious.

  - Once you identify the minute pinpoint where the mantra is coming from a few times, take it one step finer. Intuit the mantra. Try to feel the exact location or source from where it comes. At this point, the mantra is a lightning fast little blip, a sparkle or atom. Just a faint intuition. Focus all of your attention on it and drill down. Be determined and steadfast. It is at an extremely fine level.

  One point: try to remain in the location in your mind where you are at for each level of refinement. That is, when you hear the mantra, identify the location, then remain focused at that location and watch (or be aware). If you get distracted by thoughts, start over. You must be able to be aware of the location and remain there silently watching.
 
   When I did this technique, suddenly the light appears. It seems to me that my thoughts are coming from this star. Either that or my technique (probably not mine) punches a tunnel through the mind to the beyond.  I'm pretty consistent now when I go to the light. Sometimes the light persists for many hours after the meditation too. I don't know if this is the light that Cayce talks about in that link I quoted, but it probably is. My intuition tells me that this light is sometimes called Christ Consciousness. Or maybe the light is me? Maybe we are one? I don't know yet. I really love that light.

I was going to ask everyone on this forum if thoughts come from stillness or from light, and I'm still curious as to what everyone would say. My money is on the light.

Hope this helps. If you decide to try this meditation and do hit the light, please let me know. Thanks.


TI

[beetsmyth]

Tibetan_Ice,

This is a HUGE Discovery and a tremendous breakthrough for me in my journey. I too had experienced this inner light, so much so that I was blinded by it then could see through walls while in it and have since then sought to find it again.

Besides that, this is soooooo similar to another aspect I've discovered in Self Inquiry. Theoretically it seemed to me that consciousness is infinite and everywhere, except that in each human it is projected through somewhere within to be a knot. Like if you took an ininfite rope and tied a knot somewhere....

...that knot would feel as if it has its own separate, bit in reality it is infinite. All the knot has to do is follow itself down to its source. Thats what it seems like for me when I seek the source of the though 'I' or the source of the mind/ego itself, then glimpses of nonduality shine through.

I believe this is the exact same ordeal as what I've discovered. Whats funny is after having these experiences, I then found Ramana Maharshi aslo discussing this exact same topic, although he referred to it as Amrita Nadi ...which is basically the area within that is this knot or source of thoughts and it all leads to the the right side of the heart.

Also, I found this: http://www.godsdirectcontact.com/Method.html and is basically referring pretty much to the exact same thing. Except in your case, you seem to locate the bindhu and travel down into the heart from there ...or perhaps the light is in bindhu but the nonduaity is further down into the heart.

This is fascinating. I have possible plans to write a book that has to do with mystical secrets of Christianity, nonduaity, Union with God, yoga, and I would definitely like more of your insights and techniques to locate these realities.

This is great!!!!!

[Christi]

Hi Beetsmyth,

What spiritual practices are you doing at the moment? Sorry if you wrote about this elsewhere and I missed it.

Christi

[Tibetan_Ice]

quote:Originally posted by beetsmyth
This is a HUGE Discovery and a tremendous breakthrough for me in my journey. I too had experienced this inner light, so much so that I was blinded by it then could see through walls while in it and have since then sought to find it again.

Hi beetsmyth,
  Sounds like you've merged with the light. Good for you
  I do believe that everything is connected to the heart, because, the indestructible drop lives in the heart, God lives in the heart, and I've opened a few channels from the heart to the brow/crown. I've also seen great distances by feeling or looking with the heart. If you ask me, I know that the whole universe is in my heart. Very powerful..
 
  Yes, seeking the source of the mantra...  I read a story a few weeks ago: A devotee went to a guru and said "I have been performing mantra meditation for 20 years and I have not progressed at all." The guru then asked him "Where does the mantra come from?" Could have been Ramana.. that got me focusing on "seeking the source of the mantra".

  You know, the method of meditation that I described is perhaps not my original technique because, yes, I've read some Ramana, Nisargadatta and Tolle (and many others) so probably nothing I can think of is original. I've probably just rephrased an old technique into my own words. That is all. The AYP lessons are excellent and I included them as my base practice for two years (but I've also practiced a lot of different things like Kunlun, Reiki, Heart meditations etc.)

  I'm sure you will find the AYP teachings and forum an invaluable source of knowledge and entertainment.


   So, did you try the technique? Did it work for you?


TI

[beetsmyth]

Hi Christi,
I do some Pranayama here and there, but do intense self inquiry as far as where does the thought 'I' come from and seeking it's source. It was inquiring where this ego/mind/thoughts come from that I got to experience nonduality or no 'I'.

The light within was all just sitting in meditation and Loving God. ALl my most profound experiences happened after I got baptized and started getting indwelled by this Holy Spirit ...which then led to channels opening up and kundalini awakenings ...though not permanently

I kind of freaked out about these things because back than I was evangelical and only "wnet by the book," and those was all transcendent and mystical.

SInce then I have become more so of a Chrsitian Mystic Yogi Advaita-ist seeking and end to the ego and Union with God (coincidentally the part seeking ego death is also ego).

But yes thats about it. Light meditations, pranayamas (aternative nostril) and very intense and prolonged self inquiry ...seeking source of the "I thought"

[Christi]

Hi Beetsmyth,

Thanks for that. I was just wondering, when you talk about experiences of "non-duality", what do you mean?

Christi

[chinna]

quote:Originally posted by beetsmyth

Hi Christi,
I do some Pranayama here and there, but do intense self inquiry as far as where does the thought 'I' come from and seeking it's source. It was inquiring where this ego/mind/thoughts come from that I got to experience nonduality or no 'I'.

The light within was all just sitting in meditation and Loving God. ALl my most profound experiences happened after I got baptized and started getting indwelled by this Holy Spirit ...which then led to channels opening up and kundalini awakenings ...though not permanently

I kind of freaked out about these things because back than I was evangelical and only "wnet by the book," and those was all transcendent and mystical.

SInce then I have become more so of a Chrsitian Mystic Yogi Advaita-ist seeking and end to the ego and Union with God (coincidentally the part seeking ego death is also ego).

But yes thats about it. Light meditations, pranayamas (aternative nostril) and very intense and prolonged self inquiry ...seeking source of the "I thought"

Non-duality cannot be experienced.

Union with God could not possibly be otherwise.  

Why seek what already IS?

chinna

[beetsmyth]

Christi,
The experiences of Non-duality is where there is no 'I', everything just is, one, inter0connected, empty, there is no difference between myself and a chair, a blade of grass, the air, inside and outside is the same.

But then the mind comes back in and tries to grasp this truth and make it - its own, but the truth wont allow to be owned if that makes sense.

Chinna,
Yes, it is understtod that it cannot be experienced, and yet when there was no I to experience it, there was nonduality.

Well I say Union with God as a layman's term for nonduality. Thats what it seems like, nondual, tao, buddhamind, union, all seems as if its infinite consciousness or God to me.

In all these glimpses of this ...its as if first there is nonduality, then out of this springs up awareness, then mind. This awareness of mind and mind itself seem to block what is already there. Or when that reality is glimpsed, soon as mind or awareness come back into the picture, nonduality disappears.

Yes why seek what already is ....well, funny thing about that. Had ;I; not done intense self inquiry, what is would never have been known to itself through me ...if thats makes sense.

Had those glimpses not occurred I could easily have spent the rest of my life seeking that which cannot be sought. Only for concepts/constructs and ego/mind to die permanently reveals what Is to be the only everlasting reality.

ego makes it so complex, when really the reality is so simle and already there. Anyone have and ego gun? i'd like to pull the trigger now....

[Christi]

Hi Beetsmyth,

 

quote:Christi,
The experiences of Non-duality is where there is no 'I', everything just is, one, inter0connected, empty, there is no difference between myself and a chair, a blade of grass, the air, inside and outside is the same.

But then the mind comes back in and tries to grasp this truth and make it - its own, but the truth wont allow to be owned if that makes sense.

That does make sense.

You may find these two main lessons useful which cover the transition from the witness state to unity consciousness.

http://www.aypsite.com/plus/333.html

http://www.aypsite.com/plus/350.html

 

quote:But I have to say ...though my glimpses are magnificent and there is no place with more freedom that I'd rather be in ..than permanent realized non-duality ...the Light/Energy/Love aspect of it seems to be the part missing in these glimpses that come from going within ...but it eludes me as to what is referred to as this Light. Other the non-duality glimpses ...for the past year I have been in dispassion ..neither moved by sadness or happiness ...just plain neutral awareness.

There are realms of consciousness which can be experienced in samadhi in which the universe is experienced as nothing but an all pervading divine light. This light is continually being created and is increadibly beautiful. Gradually it crystalizes as it moves down through the astral layers, until it forms this material realm. But enlightenment is not about seeing lights... or about going off to heaven. It is to be found right here.

This is a description of the process by Yogani which I like (from lesson 201):

"There are only two sure signs of rising enlightenment. In fact, there is really only one sure sign, because the second one does not go very far without the first. The first, and most important sign of rising enlightenment, is the emergence of inner silence -- an unshakable blissful inner awareness -- eternal peace taking up residence in our nervous system. The second sign is the rise of ecstatic conductivity in the nervous system. Not necessarily ecstatic visions or revelations. Just simple neuro-biological ecstatic pleasure coursing up through our body. Together, inner silence and ecstatic conductivity in the nervous system make up the foundation of enlightenment. As they merge into one we see the journey coming to its fruition in endless ecstatic bliss and an outpouring of divine love. It is very simple, really. If we view our progress through these two parameters, which are readily cultivated with specific yoga practices, and easily observable, then we will be on the right track. "

And this is from lesson 318:

"While the witness stage is often presented as "enlightenment," it is only the beginning. It is the starting point for illuminating all of the human race, and beyond. This can only happen when we, as the witness, become ecstatically energized and continue to act in the world. That is the divine outpouring, which we also call stillness in action. It must continue as our divine stillness radiates outward on the wings of ecstatic kundalini."

All the best.

Christi