A Word on Yogic Practices in Advaita

[porcupine]

this is sacred

[Konchok Ösel Dorje]

Kirtanman, Whether one needs formal practice or not is a matter for the practitioner and the guru (inner and/or outer) to decide. Non-meditation and non-doing is not wrong. Those who are already very realized can practice like this. Those who realize self-liberation are always deep in meditation. Though it is rare, the fact that it is possible sheds light on the truth. It is something to which we can all aspire. Until, then, there are the practices.

Christi, I thought people don't need teachers and transmission? In the Rainbow Body thread you said people don't need transmissions or teachers... I don't follow you, really... Let me help you understand something wonderful...

Actually, Sufi poem is an example of the Mahasiddha path and Guru Yoga: 1) Direct introduction by the realized master; 2) Dispelling doubts about that unique state and 3) Continuing in confidence in self-liberation (without or with formal meditation).

The Mahasiddha path transcends lineages, traditions and practices. Once one recognizes the nature of mind, there is no need for inner silence meditation or witness as formal discrete practices. The nature of mind is already both. That seeing and direct knowledge is the fruit of all practices combined.

"Soul receives from soul that knowing." <-- Lineage transmission.

[Kirtanman]

Hi Konchok,

quote:Originally posted by Konchok Ösel Dorje

Kirtanman, Whether one needs formal practice or not is a matter for the practitioner and the guru (inner and/or outer) to decide. Non-meditation and non-doing is not wrong. Those who are already very realized can practice like this. Those who realize self-liberation are always deep in meditation. Though it is rare, the fact that it is possible sheds light on the truth. It is something to which we can all aspire. Until, then, there are the practices.

I agree with what you've written 100%, and never intended anything else I've written to convey a different view.

My entire purpose in starting this thread was to clarify the misconception that Advaitic paths are against practices, which was kind of a "running myth" here at the AYP Forum, for a while.

All Advaitic paths I know of *do* teach that practices are necessary -- and so, I felt that a thread highlighting this actuality, might help forum members and visitors to have an accurate understanding of the harmonious, essential relationship between practices and realization.

However, this does not disagree with your statements above.

I agree fully that non-meditation and non-doing are not wrong.

They're not even non-conducive to realization, necessarily.

In most cases, though -- if a given practitioner is experiencing life/living in terms of philosophies, realization, practices or not, etc. --- then it is likely that practices, appropriate/applicable to their current consciousness -- as outlined in Kashmir Shaivism -- and I'm pretty sure as outlined in Vajrayana, (though I will defer to you for confirmation of that) -- will be beneficial, and that the practitioner will be so guided by the guru (inner and/or outer, as you say).

And so, I wasn't speaking in a sense that "practices are necessary, and {therefore} non-practicing is wrong" ... but rather "Practices are in harmony with Advaitic philosphies; Advaitic philosophies do not say that practices are wrong."

My purpose, as mentioned above, being to clarify the misconception that Advaitic schools teach that practices reinforce duality, and that practices are therefore bad/counterproductive.

In my experience, some neo-Advaita teachers proclaim this, but no traditional Advaitic school (Advaita Vedanta, as I can now confirm; Advaita Shaiva//Kashmir Shaivism, Buddhist Non-Dual Schools {Dzogchen, Vajrayana and others}, Kabbalah, Mystical Christianity, Sufism, and so on) teach that the non-duality of reality, and the apparent duality of practices, are in any kind of disharmony.

Nearly every awakening trajectory involves the sense of movement from dreaming-conceptual-duality to knowing-reality.

The yogic practices of Advaita are the alarm clock of awakening, spread out over a bit of dream-time.

I hope this helps clarify what I meant by "necessary".

I would guess, that with your own Vajrayana path as reference point, you understand what I'm saying, yes?

Vajrayana is non-dual in essence -- and, Vajrayana contains practices which help the reality of non-duality be known.

Being non-dual in essence, Vajrayana (and its gurus/teachers/advanced practitioners) know that ultimately, practicing or non-practicing is consciousness being consciousness ..... either consciously, semi-consciously or unconsciously ... because the spectrum of consciousness "consciousness-ing"  .... is all there ever is, now.

(And please correct my statements if they do not reflect Vajrayana accurately; basically, I'm saying about Vajrayana what I could say about Kashmir Shaivism or Kabbalah ... because all essentially non-dual paths are that similar, that I feel safe in "so doing" .... however, I am not claiming to have more than passing familiarity with Vajrayana, specifically.)

Hope that helps clarify "my" (non)-position.



Heart Is Where The AUM Is,

Kirtanman

[Christi]

Hi Osel,

 

quote:Christi, I thought people don't need teachers and transmission? In the Rainbow Body thread you said people don't need transmissions or teachers... I don't follow you, really... Let me help you understand something wonderful...

Actually, Sufi poem is an example of the Mahasiddha path and Guru Yoga: 1) Direct introduction by the realized master; 2) Dispelling doubts about that unique state and 3) Continuing in confidence in self-liberation (without or with formal meditation).

The Mahasiddha path transcends lineages, traditions and practices. Once one recognizes the nature of mind, there is no need for inner silence meditation or witness as formal discrete practices. The nature of mind is already both. That seeing and direct knowledge is the fruit of all practices combined.

"Soul receives from soul that knowing." <-- Lineage transmission.

That's right. I believe at the present time many people are evolving spiritually even though they have no spiritual teacher and have never received direct spiritual transmissions. Nothing I wrote above contradicts that. Of course we are blessed (as you and I are) if we have come into contact with pure spiritual teachers and we are also blessed if we have come into contact with spiritual transmissions. We both have a great deal to be grateful for.

Thank you for sharing your wisdom on the Mahasiddhi path.

Christi