Author Topic: A Word on Yogic Practices in Advaita  (Read 1401 times)

Kirtanman

  • Posts: 1654
    • http://livingunbound.net
A Word on Yogic Practices in Advaita
« on: August 03, 2009, 12:48:59 PM »


Hi All,

There's been much discussion in the forum about Advaita being "anti-practices".

In all of my relatively extensive study of Advaita, and Advaitic traditions from around the world, and as found within the mystical schools of all religions, I have yet to come across this (anti-practices attitude).

Quite the opposite, actually --- they each and all have extensive and sophisticated systems of yoga/yogic practices -- and all emphasize the utter necessity of practices, in order to realize true nature.

The one exception I've seen to this rule, is in the "neo-Advaita" which has expanded rapidly in recent years.

It seems to me that neo-Advaita is to Advaita, much as neo-Tantra is to Tantra ... a highly-altered version of the original system, which bears very little resemblance to the original, except in name only.

And so, it may be fair to say the neo-Advaita, in general, has an "anti-practices" attitude.

However, it does not seem fair or accurate to say that Advaita, or the many Advaita systems from various religions that we're discussing here, have anything but a clear, accurate and highly enthusiastic attitude regarding practices.

Ironically, the one "gap" in my knowledge is Advaita Vedanta itself - though I don't get the impression that there is, or was, an "anti-practices" attitude there.

I can say confidently, that none of the other Advaitic systems with which I am familiar (Kashmir Shaivism, non-dual Shaivism of South India, Vajrayana Buddhism, Dzogchen, non-dual schools within Taoism, Kabbalah, Sufism, mystical Christianity, Hermetic Alchemy, etc. -- have any attitude toward practices other than: they're essential -- and they work.)

I hope this is helpful.

Advaito'ham,

Kirtanman

porcupine

  • Posts: 193
    • http://www.xanga.com/stellawasadiverandshewasdown
A Word on Yogic Practices in Advaita
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2009, 02:11:22 PM »
Kirtanman, beloved! how can practices have any use if dirt is the same as rain? if the sun eats my pillow in the morning, will this love poem to you be the same?

Ananda

  • Posts: 3001
    • http://www.ayparabia.com/
A Word on Yogic Practices in Advaita
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2009, 07:23:39 PM »
brother K all of advaita is about practice, it involves bhakti and constant inquiry (meditation on the origin of thoughts) on the source on That and either these people admit it or not they are doing practices by just being still there and dropping stuff...

but to be fair regarding what their gurus say all of that practice stuff is dropped at some point for the ego is killed or has become very transparent and nothing is remained but that and it's automatically flowing and here is the difference between someone like an advaita teacher and Yogani and here i cannot add on anything concerning leaving practices behind or not bcz for these advaita teachers the evolution process has become automatic (seek first the kingdom of God and all will be added to you) and they seem to have found it.

it's best if we leave it to the master[:D] if he would like to chime in.

Christi

  • Posts: 3071
    • Advanced Yoga Practices
A Word on Yogic Practices in Advaita
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2009, 11:34:40 PM »
Hi all,

Nice discussion...

I found this video which has an interesting take on the relationship between doing, non-doing, and that which depends on grace alone (in this case the grace of a master):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8bUIxacqKU&feature=related

Christi

CarsonZi

  • Posts: 3178
    • http://www.facebook.com/?ref=home#!/CarsonZi
A Word on Yogic Practices in Advaita
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2009, 01:44:27 AM »
Hi Christi and All....

Is there a copy of this video on Google video?  I can't watch youtube videos at home or at work, but I can watch Google videos at work.  If you (or anyone else that can see the video) and can see that there is a copy on Google, would you mind posting a link for me please?  I would really like to watch this video....Thanks and sorry for any inconvenience.

Love,
Carson[^]

Shanti

  • Posts: 4947
    • http://livingunbound.net/
A Word on Yogic Practices in Advaita
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2009, 02:08:52 AM »
Carson,
It seems to be on Youtube only. It is a poetry by Rumi.
Here is what it says:
A Basket of Fresh Bread                  ..

The Prophet Muhammad said,
                          "There is no better companion
on this Way than what you do.  Your actions will be
your best friend, or if you're cruel and selfish,
your actions will be a poisonous snake
that lives in your grave."

                          But tell me,
can you do the good work without a teacher?  
Can you even know what it is without the presence
of a Master?  Notice how the lowest livelihood
requires some instruction.

                          First comes knowledge,
then the doing of the job.  And much later,
perhaps after you're dead, something grows
from what you've done.

                          Look for help and guidance
in whatever craft you're learning.  Look for a generous
teacher, one who has absorbed the tradition he's in.

(these lines [in italics] are not on the video... but wow these lines are awesome!!!)

Look for pearls in oyster shells.
Learn technical skill from a craftsman.

Whenever you meet genuine spiritual teachers,
be gentle and polite and fair with them.
Ask them questions, and be eager
for answers.  Never condescend.

If a master tanner wears an old, threadbare smock,
that doesn't diminish his mastery.

If a fine blacksmith works at the bellows
in a patched apron, it doesn't affect
how he bends the iron.

                          Strip away your pride,
and put on humble clothes.


                          If you want to learn theory,
talk with theoreticians.  That way is oral.

When you learn a craft, practice it.
That learning comes through the hands.

If you want dervishood, spiritual poverty,
and emptiness, you must be friends with a sheikh.

The mystery of spiritual emptiness
may be living in a pilgrim's heart, and yet
the knowing of it may not be his.

Wait for the illuminating openness,
as though your chest were filling with Light,
as when God said,
                           "Did we not expand you?"
                                                     (Qur'an, XCIV,1)

Don't look for it outside yourself.
You are the source of milk.  Don't milk others!

There is a milk-fountain inside you.
Don't walk around with an empty bucket.

You have a channel into the Ocean, and yet
you ask for water from a little pool.


Beg for that love-expansion.  Meditate only
on THAT.  The Qur'an says,
                            And he is with you
                                                 (VII,4)

There is a basket of fresh bread on your head,
and yet you go door to door asking for crusts.


Knock on your inner door.  No other.
Sloshing kneedeep in fresh riverwater, yet
you keep wanting a drink from other people's water bags.

Water is everywhere around you, but you only see
barriers that keep you from water.

The horse is beneath the rider's thighs, and still
he asks, Where is my horse?
                                         "Right there, under you!"
Yes, this is a horse, but where's the horse?
                                                              "Can't you see!"
Yes, I can see, but whoever saw such a horse?

Mad with thirst, he can't drink from the stream
running so close by his face.  He's like a pearl
on the deep bottom, wondering, inside his shell,
"Where's the Ocean?"
                             His mental questionings
form the barrier.  His physical eyesight
bandages his knowing.  Self-consciousness
plugs his ears.
                             Stay bewildered in God,
and only that.

                            Those of you who are scattered,
simplify your worrying lives.  There is one
righteousness: Water the fruit trees,
and don't water the thorns.  Be generous
to what nurtures the Spirit and God's luminous
reason-light.  Don’t honor what causes
dysentery and knotted-up tumors.

Don't feed both sides of yourself equally.
The spirit and the body carry different loads
and require different attentions.
                                   Too often
we put saddlebags on Jesus and let the donkey
run loose in the pasture.
                           Don't make the body do
what the spirit does best, and don't put a big load
on the spirit that the body could carry easily.

CarsonZi

  • Posts: 3178
    • http://www.facebook.com/?ref=home#!/CarsonZi
A Word on Yogic Practices in Advaita
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2009, 02:22:02 AM »
Wow.....Thank you Christi for sharing the video and thank you Shanti for posting this transcript for me.....all I can say is "Wow".

quote:
"There is no better companion on this Way than what you do. Your actions will be your best friend, or if you're cruel and selfish, your actions will be a poisonous snake that lives in your grave."


quote:
Mad with thirst, he can't drink from the stream running so close by his face. He's like a pearl on the deep bottom, wondering, inside his shell, "Where's the Ocean?" His mental questionings form the barrier. His physical eyesight bandages his knowing. Self-consciousness plugs his ears.

quote:
Too often we put saddlebags on Jesus and let the donkey run loose in the pasture.

Love,
Carson[^]
« Last Edit: August 04, 2009, 02:23:08 AM by CarsonZi »

yogani

  • Posts: 6025
    • AYP Plus
A Word on Yogic Practices in Advaita
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2009, 02:46:14 AM »
Hi All:

A few more cents on this topic over here:
http://www.aypsite.com/plus-forum/index.php?topic=6062#54509

[:)]

The guru is in you.


Christi

  • Posts: 3071
    • Advanced Yoga Practices
A Word on Yogic Practices in Advaita
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2009, 04:20:13 AM »
Hi all,

My main reason for posting the link for this poem (apart from the fact that it is an amazing poem in it's own right, writen about 750 years ago) is because of the way Rumi treats with dvaita, advaita and the Grace of a master in one poem without any seeming discord between the three.

In the opening lines he seems to suggest the importance of action:

 "But tell me, can you do the good work without a teacher?
Can you even know what it is without the presence of a Master? Notice how the lowest livelihood requires some instruction. First comes knowledge, then the doing of the job."


Then, almost in the same breath, he goes on to say that practices are of no use:

"If you want Dervish-hood, spiritual poverty and emptiness,
You must be friends with a Shayk

Talking about it, reading books, and doing practices don’t help."
(This line is on the Youtube version but not on the transcript above)

And then there are lines covering aspects of the process of energetic transformation and the importance of the radiance of a master:

"Wait for the illuminating openness, as though your chest were filling with light. As when God said “Did we not expand you?”
Beg for that love expansion. Meditate only on that...
There is a milk-fountain inside you."


And:
"Soul receives from soul that knowing."
(Again this line is on the Youtube version, and not on the transcript above)

For me, this poem is an example of how an integrated spiritual tradition (in this case Sufi) blends both dual and non-dual aspects of the spiritual path without any problem at all. In my experience, Yoga does this too, and in a funny kind of way, even the Neo-Advaitins are playing their part in the grand scheme of things. [8D]

Christi

p.s. Thanks for the transcript Shanti. [:)]
« Last Edit: August 04, 2009, 06:16:39 AM by Christi »

Christi

  • Posts: 3071
    • Advanced Yoga Practices
A Word on Yogic Practices in Advaita
« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2009, 04:29:42 AM »
Hi Yogani,

Thanks for the link to the other thread... I am looking forward to the new main lessons on Jnyana Yoga.

Christi

Katrine

  • Posts: 1843
    • http://katrinekristiansen.com/
A Word on Yogic Practices in Advaita
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2009, 08:17:14 AM »
Hi Christi

That was a beautiful video....thank you.
And thank you also for your discource regarding the blending of seemingly different practices.

Like blending Jnana, Bhakti and Karma into one natural...whole... expressional .....teaching....like a triad....or live triad Yoni.

I must look into this Sufi thing....this tradition.....I find great resonance with what you wrote..... thanks again [:)]

Ananda

  • Posts: 3001
    • http://www.ayparabia.com/
A Word on Yogic Practices in Advaita
« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2009, 04:18:19 PM »
that's beautiful Christy,

quote:"Soul receives from soul that knowing."

the suffi technical name for this is "Al Mousarara", teaching through silence directly from the cave of lights "heart of the sheikh" to the "heart of the mourid" the student.

Christi

  • Posts: 3071
    • Advanced Yoga Practices
A Word on Yogic Practices in Advaita
« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2009, 10:54:03 AM »
quote:
That was a beautiful video....thank you.
And thank you also for your discource regarding the blending of seemingly different practices.

Like blending Jnana, Bhakti and Karma into one natural...whole... expressional .....teaching....like a triad....or live triad Yoni.

I must look into this Sufi thing....this tradition.....I find great resonance with what you wrote..... thanks again


Hi Katrine,

Yes. Just as Suffism blends dvaita, advaita and grace, it also fuses jnyana yoga, bhakti yoga and karma yoga. Of course, at the most esoteric level, all the great traditions do... Suffism, Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism.

In fact, once you get to this level, where the individual is expanding into Divine consciousness through continual surrender, and Divine consciousness is pouring into the individual as grace, it is difficult to tell one path from another. They all merge into each other, and the labels fall away.

I think you would love the Sufis. [:)]

Christi
« Last Edit: August 05, 2009, 11:20:41 AM by Christi »

porcupine

  • Posts: 193
    • http://www.xanga.com/stellawasadiverandshewasdown
A Word on Yogic Practices in Advaita
« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2009, 08:37:28 AM »
there are no sufis and no people, end it there

Christi

  • Posts: 3071
    • Advanced Yoga Practices
A Word on Yogic Practices in Advaita
« Reply #14 on: August 14, 2009, 11:48:33 PM »
Hi Porcupine.
 
quote:
there are no sufis and no people, end it there


[:)]

Or... there are many Sufis and billions of people. Just another angle. [;)]

Never end it.

Christi