Practice for Messed-Up Friend

[yogani99]

Hi Jim:

Don't worry about it. Sometimes we just have to let go when we feel strongly about something. It's all part of the process.

The guru is in you.

[tantien]

Hi Jim:

Please except my apologies for my post regarding your response to Yogani. You're obviously a very intelligent and sensitive person.
I'm certain there was no ill intent on your part

We are one

Guy

[mystiq]

Dear friends, Im not an expert on szichophrenia. However I think that theres a degree of that phrenia in everybody in varying degrees. When it is to a high extent it is pathological and treated. According to the ancient study of vedanta, the series goes like this. Desire, fear,anger, loss of memory, delusion, persecution complex hallucination etc suicidal tendency and on it goes. The antidote as prescribed by vedanta is Bhava Advaita, on imagining that the multiplicity one sees in the universe is essentially fron the one source and therefore essentially one. There is no scope of the existence of two. However much one can read the vedanta scriptures and reduce the multifarious mind to a single perception that much the individual will be non schizophrenic. having said that I have people very close to me who are schizo and whom I have been able to help only in a very minimal way. One method i have known is to never tell the person that he/ she is wrong and is imagining things. Always agree with what they say but take them on the road to (so what) the worst which can happen is (only whatever it is) and or death which will happen to everybody some day. Anyway this is a very sensitive subject and should be handled on a case by case basis. It is a very difficult disease to deal with and for people close to the diseased person. Tons of compassion from lot of people will move the cosmic mind to make a correction too.

mystiq

[Jim and His Karma]

quote: One method i have known is to never tell the person that he/ she is wrong and is imagining things

Very true, alas. I worked with a schizophrenic I was in love with on this for years. She was extremely smart, intuitive, sensitive. She understood the overview of schizophrenia, though she was lost to her particular situation.  We worked together on a yogic approach of trying to help her to find "other pathways" to judge the veracity of an impulse or "voice" she was experiencing. I used all my resourcefulness, as did she. We tried to treat it without emotion, as an interesting self-learnging pursuit, to see if it was possible to sort out the real info from the delusion. Witness, neutral observer, etc.

Classical thinking about schizophrenia says this is not possible. And while I hate to admit defeat, classical thinking is right. It's like a stitch in the mind/brain, and it's not something the witness can shine light on. It's a terrible, terrible, terrible disease. I don't know one report of a schizophrenic who ever developed "perspective" on their issue and was able to sort true vs false info generated in their mind.

This is all a lot more personal than I'd like to get here, but I'm typing it out in case any of you encounter a schizophrenic and consider trying yogic/spiritual tools to help them develop their witness. This person had awesome skills for that, and I tried to be a super patient mirror for her. If she couldn't do it, I don't think it can be done.

[Etherfish]

I used to know a good looking young girl who was a schizophrenic also.
She wore too much makeup, but was intelligent and interesting to talk to. One day at lunch we had a conversation, and she got up in the middle of her sentence and left for no apparent reason. A couple weeks later she sat down with me, finished the sentence and continued the conversation!

[tantien]

Hi Etherfish:

What did you do? Did you say anything to her about the previous "luncheon"? I've never heard of that happening before.
Is there a term for that condition?

Guy

[Jim and His Karma]

The problem with pointing out the lapse or other sorts of weirdness is that a schizophrenic will never say, "Oh, that darn disease!". Because the disease exists at the very point of identity and objectivity. Instead, if you do manage to convince them that they've done something weird or are experiencing delusion or acting out of delusional information, it will affect their deepest self image, and they will lash out at you and/or themselves. Even if they understand schizophrenia - even if they're a trained and talented psychologist! - they will not put the blocks in the proper place and truly understand that "I am a worthy person afflicted with a disease which just made me do something weird or take an improper course of thought or action." You never ever reach that conclusion. Perhaps you parrot the words, but you don't believe it.

Anyway, I'm hoping my case is getting more persuasive for urging great hesitation before launching a schizophrenic on a course requriing adherence to the council of an inner guru.

[Etherfish]

I agree, that's why I was advocating the mothering approach, or better yet just being their friend. I was working at Goodwill, where most of the employees were mentally ill, and some physically handicapped too. Often the two go together.
The girl was known to lash out at people with not much provocation, so I didn't want to bring up the subject of her leaving in the middle of a sentence. I found with most of the people there, that the best approach was to just be friendly. I would talk to them the same as I would to anyone else, starting with small talk, and slowly progress to see how much deeper they would go. Then you can find certain subjects they are interested in, and go from there. You find that they are not that different from supposedly "normal" people, but just have trouble in areas that affect their interaction with society. "Normal" people have just as many problems, but are able to interact. If you are condescending, or talk "down" to them in any way, they may not react, but they know it on some level. So you treat them like equals, and you find out they ARE equals, but society doesn't understand them. They just have trouble interacting in *normal* ways because society determines what is "normal", and the rules are mostly arbitrary.