Adyashanti Interview in The Sun

[yogani]

quote:Originally posted by Jim and His Karma

 I'm pretty sure you'll agree with this: the mind  be transcended. And that generally can only happen after it's noticed the ever-growing number of dead ends in worldly seeking and in spiritual seeking. One does not surrender if one still believes divine satisfaction can come from a winning lottery ticket. And, after lots of meditation, one does not surrender if one still believes enlightenment awaits as a future stop in one's route of spiritual experiences. Once exhaustion occurs re: the outer world, one turns inward. Once exhaustion occurs re: the inner world, one lets go into What Is.

Hi Jim:

Yes, mind is transcended. But don't you see it is the mind you are putting at the center of the process? A tough slog, because the mind is not at the center. Inner silence is.

"Exhausting the mind" is not part of my vocabulary. "Illuminating the mind" is the way I see the process. Nothing has to be exhausted. Everything becomes awakened from within stillness. Maybe it is symantics, but I think the attitudes we are talking about here are significantly different, and with far-reaching consequences.  

I can assure you that with the rise of the witness, the awakening will occur whether one considers themself to be exhausting or illuminating the mind, which will be a relief to many, I'm sure. It was a relief to me.

Much better to be considering adding something than subtracting everything, even if it is the same process occurring. Point of view makes a big difference in this, because who will want to add useful supporting practices while engaged in the never-ending process of trying to exhaust the mind? It is a contradiction.

By Adyashanti's own admission, the path/mental attitude he prescribes is not for the masses (he does not expect much of humanity). The simple path of deep meditation leading to self-inquiry and all other aspects of yoga and fullness in living is for the masses. That is the difference. Exhaustion versus illumination. I'll take the latter, thank you very much.

The guru is in you.

[Jim and His Karma]

quote:Originally posted by yogani
But don't you see it is the mind you are putting at the center of the process

No. I see the non-dualists with whom you quarrel putting the mind at the center of the process. They are the straw men in your postings in this thread.

I see Adyashanti putting the mind as part of the process. And that's what I'm saying, too.

[yogani]

quote:Originally posted by Jim and His Karma

quote:Originally posted by yogani
But don't you see it is the mind you are putting at the center of the process

No. I see the non-dualists with whom you quarrel putting the mind at the center of the process. They are the straw men in your postings in this thread.

I see Adyashanti putting the mind as part of the process. And that's what I'm saying, too.

Hi Jim:

All these points of view are useful, tickling our awareness.

Thank you Adyashanti, and Jim, and David, and VIL, and Eitherway.

The guru is in you.

[Jim and His Karma]

And thank you, even more, Yogani!

Though I didn't feel you were speaking, specifically, to Adyashanti's quote (or my attempted explanation), I should note that I completely agree, on principle,  with all you've said, and have gained insight from the way you stated it (I can't wait to read the self inquiry book!).

[david_obsidian]

Jim said to Yogani:
No. I see the non-dualists with whom you quarrel putting the mind at the center of the process. They are the straw men in your postings in this thread.

Perhaps. But whether it's a straw man or not, I'm not making it anyway.  What I'm saying is that it is very misleading to say that the role of practices is to exhaust the seeker.

It's a totally inadequate way of casting a rich process, which can mislead in all sorts of ways.

It may be true that 'cessation of seeking' is part of enlightenment.  But the 'cessation of seeking' is really only one angle on what is actually a finding at a neurobiological level.  You are doomed to seek until you find.  No way out of that.  That people 'found' in the context of 'ceasing seeking' has confused them into thinking they are a counterexample to what I've just said.  They aren't,  they are an example of it!

The role of practices is to help create the neurobiological conditions in which the finding (or the cessation of seeking, if you prefer) arises.  That's the proper casting of the story.

Adyashanti's casting is inadequate in a few ways.  Firstly, 'exhaust the seeker' is not a proper characterization at all of what happens as that foundation is being laid. It's not even close to being good.  If he had said the 'cessation of seeking' instead of 'exhaust the seeker',  it might be more defensible.  What he said also creates the impression that 'exhaustion' is what these practices are up to.  In fact, the practices are a set of tools, precisely targeted to encourage and direct neurobiological events.  Saying their role is to exhaust you is like saying that the role of sleeping, say, or eating, are to exhaust you....

Imagine saying that the role of giving your child proper nutrition and proper sleep during his/her adolescence is to 'exhaust' him --- and justifying that by an observation that when properly fed and slept, his adolescent 'issues' tend to quieten!

That kind of statement Adyashanti made does seem to be the kind of thing that people say if they don't understand the power (and effect) of the practices, and rather, understand them in a limited way that does not give the practices their proper credit.

[Black Rebel Radio]

Eitherway said "If you say to forget about the problems because they are an illusion and simply go for the Ultimate realization, I can only say that I put on my boxers first and then my jeans."

And I might add...
My mom always told me to make sure I was wearing clean underwear just in case I got into a spiritual accident.

Peace and Love AND a few laughs...
Mac

[jillatay]

Sorry Jim but I have to tell you reading this thread highlights my beef with the advaitists, always sound like scolding. I have this same beef with all spiritual teachers who scold. Scolding only makes me want to avoid all things so-called spiritual.  

Yogani, your words always offer comfort AND inspiration to practice without actually putting anyone down. Many thanks for being a light to me.

Sorry to be blunt.
Jill

[Jim and His Karma]

Jill, before judging Adyashanti on the basis of the quote I've extracted, plus my (apparently poor) attempt to explain it, please have a look at the interview, so he can be judged on his own basis, rather than via my flawed filtration. it's at ttp://www.thesunmagazine.org/issues/384/who_hears_this_sound?page=1  and I'd be really surprised if you were to maintain this opinion of him after reading that. But if I'm wrong and you do, I'd expect nothing less than your frank opinion!

[Christi]

Hi Jill,
 

quote:--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Sorry Jim but I have to tell you reading this thread highlights my beef with the advaitists, always sound like scolding. I have this same beef with all spiritual teachers who scold. Scolding only makes me want to avoid all things so-called spiritual.  

I'm confused now... who was scolding who?

Christi

[Jim and His Karma]

I think she's saying that Advaitans in general sound scoldy, and that I'm doing likewise.

The following might sound particularly scoldy, for those who realize I'm saying it with a goofy grin (it's notoriously hard to convey such sentiment online, but, fwiw, I never say "dude" with a completely straight face):

quote:
Surrender only comes after a battle...and thank goodness, we do lose in the end! It's good to see the checkmate ahead of time rather than persevere stubbornly till every last piece is gone. Dude, wake up and realize you're LOSING! And it's winner take all...

But regardless of whether I'm scoldy or not, I really think Adyashanti isn't. So I feel bad for misrepresenting his attitude, if that's what happened!

[Black Rebel Radio]

I thought this was the best part of that article.

Not that they wern't all the best part being one and all.

Saunders: Is that use of humor and play an intentional part of your teachings?

Adyashanti: It’s not intentional. I just see some things as profoundly funny.

Saunders: So it emerges more from your personality.

Adyashanti: Yeah, that’s more it, although I think it’s part and parcel of being awake that you don’t take things too seriously. The thing you probably take the least seriously is yourself. I’ve heard enlightenment described as the “restoration of cosmic humor.” I think that’s a wonderful description. If you think you’re awake, but you don’t have a sense of humor, you’re probably not as awake as you imagine yourself to be. Humor comes with the knowledge that all is well.

[jillatay]

I was not naming names on purpose because it would not be fair to single out one particular person.  I could very well be projecting, something I am quite capable of doing especially around the topic of scolding.  

It is just something I have felt for a long time with the "just do it" advocates.  Perhaps once in a while a person can hear this message and wake up but often it just seems cruel to tell people who are suffering to "suck it up" and "be here now" or some such thing.

Just my pet peeve.  Sorry if I am rude

Love to all,
Jill

[Jim and His Karma]

quote:Originally posted by Black Rebel Radio
Humor comes with the knowledge that all is well.

Yeah. People tend to take yoga (and themselves as yogis) way too seriously. It's all part of the striving thing.

Glad you read through, BRR. I found it really inspiring. Also,fwiw, that magazine, "The Sun" is good just in general.

[VIL]

quote:Yeah. People tend to take yoga (and themselves as yogis) way too seriously. It's all part of the striving thing.

Cute, Jim, very tongue in cheek, btw: LOL.

When humor is appropriate, use humor!  When seriousness is appropriate, (be serious).  

Btw, I read the entire interview with Adyashanti and I enjoyed the work that he's doing.  I'm not familiar with any of the processes that he uses other than those that he mentioned.

I especially enjoyed how he helped a woman who suffered with severe anxiety due to her fear of death.  That was great. Anything that helps a person is a good thing.

The mind is an instrument, just like a muscle that is worked to exhaustion gets that much stronger later on even if it appears to antropy.  Right?  We can say that the muscle has disappeared but we know that isn't the case, since that is the instrument that we human beings use to express ourSelves, the Divine, or whatever term we want to use to convey that Unknowingness.  So, both work together.  A healthy balance.

As we get closer to who we are, the detached mind becomes more acute, stronger, clearer, less muddled through striving, not striving; is dependent on ones batki, as is the outcome.

I liked this article which mentions the importance of using our mind in a balanced way:

"The Whole Hemisphere

The whole hemisphere or balanced mind is clear, simple, lucid, clean, inspirational, illuminating and ecstatic. It sees both sides of an event, the direct one and the interpreted one. It contains the feminine and masculine, the negative and the positive minds and is therefore neutral. Yoga is the product of balanced mental function. It deals with awareness, peace, love, harmony, illumination, silence, grace and beauty. It relies on discipline, meditation, daily practice and selflessness."

The balanced mind uses intuition to come to conclusions. It integrates and organizes various traits or tendencies into one harmonious whole. It integrates and leads to integrity. It synthesizes. It puts two or more things together so as to form a whole. It joins analysis and interpretation. It is a whole made up of parts, or elements put together. It goes from the simple elements of thought into the complex whole, from a principle to its application, car parts into car, organs into human."

http://www.astromind.com/articles/brain.html



VIL

P.S. When I use the word "stronger" it is in the sense of reflecting the unknowingness more clearly.  See how words are a poor way of conveying meaning.  

[Christi]

Hi Jill,
 

quote:It is just something I have felt for a long time with the "just do it" advocates. Perhaps once in a while a person can hear this message and wake up but often it just seems cruel to tell people who are suffering to "suck it up" and "be here now" or some such thing.

Well, I have never heard anyone say "suck it up" as a serious spiritual teaching. Maybe there are teachers out there that I have somehow managed to avoid.

But I get what you mean in general. People do need a whole lot more than just being told to "be here now". That's what practices are for... as I'm sure Adyashanti would agree.

Christi