taking responsibility for AYP

[tantien]

Long long time ago I read a story about the early development of Microsoft Corp.  Bill Gates and Paul Allen wanted to hire this very talented gentleman to head their public relations department.
But there was one major obstacle, he already had this great position with Coca Cola Corp as a senior vice president Of sales making twice as much as Microsoft was able to offer him.

So at the very end of the final meeting between Gates, Allen and the Coke Executive they were all resigned to the fact that Microsoft just could't offer this guy what he already was making wi th coke and he was ready to walk,then, Bill Gates said to the Coke guy " So what do you want to do with your life, sell sugar water to the world or be directly involved in their enlightenment. At that moment the guy signed with microsoft.

Pretty good sale pitch by Gates, wouldn't you say?

Maybe we should all ask ourselves the same question.

Warmest regards

Guy

[weaver]

Agreed Guy, very good sales pitch!
He possibly had a slightly different view of what enlightenment is than we have. Maybe we already have asked ourselves that question and to some extent said yes.

[tantien]

Hi Weaver:

Agreed, maybe most of us have already asked ourselves that or a similar question.

I just relate the story as "food for thought"

I don't intend on quitting my day job,but I do know how important it is for me to work on the AYP mission for the betterment of humanity.

Thanks

Guy

[yogani99]

Hi Guy and Weaver:

You got me thinking...

I wonder if we have a franchising expert in our midst. The thought occurred that if we could muster the expertise, a chain of AYP Schools could happen someday. Of course, it would depend on the presence of skilled practitioners interested in moving into teaching. I see people with those skills rising quickly among us already. As our numbers grow, the skills will be there.

It would be the perfect venue for the AYP writings to be applied in the teaching environment on the local level.

We would obviously need professional educators, as well, to develop and administer the curriculum.

It could all be set up centrally and reproduced thousands of times in franchised AYP Schools all over the world. It could be set up as a real business, so those involved could make a living and provide for their families -- a small detail that all yogis and yoginis must attend to.

The interview question to the franchising expert might be, "What would you rather be doing with your life, selling hamburgers or worldwide enlightenment?"

And to the educator: "Would you rather be churning out diplomas or seers?"



The guru is in you.

PS -- If it evolved to become a successful corporation, that would also go a long way toward addressing the challenge of preserving the teachings long term, beyond all of our lifetimes.
 

[weaver]

Wow, Yogani, that is a grand vision!
In those schools I don't think we would have to worry about too much noise.

[tantien]

Hi yogani:

I firmly believe that for each and every person who has the potential in this life time to work on their spiritual growth and consider enlightenment as a possibility there has to be a question similar to the one Bill Gates asked.

I'm not exactly sure how that equates to AYP schools on the local level, but count me in.

If you think about any successful global venture they all have localized or satellite offices.The free online lessons is a noble effort and we are all very appreciative,but I wonder if it can be self sustaining. It seems to me people really need more hands on training you know, a little human contact.

Thank you for all you are doing for us.

Guy

[Etherfish]

I love it the way it is. i would never be attracted to a school teaching this stuff, and I think the open forum type education can be self-sustaining. I got just part way through the online lessons when I bought the book, even though I was getting the same thing for free.

I think it would be very difficult to sustain schools, unless they were at people's houses, and non-profit. But those people would have to make huge sacrifices for that.

having said that, I have absolutely nothing against any of the ideas you guys are talking about. It wouldn't be hard to "hook" people in, with all the billions they spend on looking younger.
just tell them stress is the number one cause of aging, and meditation is the easiest, most effective, and cheapest method to reduce stress.

Then in a gutteral, cheesy DJ voice: But WAIT! That's not all! Not only can you add years to your life, you can improve your sex life, AND become happier than you've ever been by connecting with the very energy of God! (insert echo here)

Some type of school atmosphere could be quite valuable though because
most people will not read all of this forum, and they'll have the same questions over and over, even though they have been answered. I know people who will not learn anything unless it is directly from another person.

[yogani99]

Hi Etherfish:

I both agree and disagree -- for present and future. It would certainly be difficult to successfully launch such a chain of schools now. But with more reputation (franchise recognition), more awakening in society, an organized curriculum that works and a solid business plan, it can fly. I think it must. Where else can humanity go with all this knowledge? We will never be the same.

Just to emphasize the importance of pressing ever-forward, here is a quote from JFK:
"If not us, then who? If not now, then when?"

We all have much more power to make a better world than we realize. It can only be revealed in our doing.  

The guru is in you.

[weaver]

   

quote:It wouldn't be hard to "hook" people in...

I just wanted to comment on this from Etherfish, (not saying that you suggested it!) that I think it would be wrong to present AYP to the world with the intent to attract people to AYP, or trying to "sell" AYP, from only the perspective of some of its effects or "scenery" that may appeal to most people, for example to reduce stress, improve your sex life, gain powers to control your life etc. To do that could be to cheat them into AYP. I think AYP should always be presented with the ultimate goal clearly stated, and from the perspective of its real purpose, which could be expressed different ways, for example spiritual self-transformation, to become a channel of outpouring divine love, to become one with God or the SELF. Otherwise, at a certain point, when the processes of purification take over and "own you", and there is no turning back(?), they could feel cheated into something they didn't intend or want. (Well, maybe the last point could be argued that even if you start AYP from the purpose of parts of the "scenery", you will gradually change to seek the real goal foremost, but is this always true?)

[NagoyaSea]

This was such an exciting topic that it kept creeping into my morning meditation.  

I hope I don’t offend anyone by saying this, but we must learn all the lessons we can from the TM group when discussing this topic. It appears they started out with noble purpose and degenerated into something sorrowful.  With that said….

The idea of providing places where people can learn AYP practices, especially meditation, fills me with joy. If you have ever meditated in a room with several people meditating together then you understand how profoundly moving and powerful the experience is. The peace and joy are palpable. It is as if the very vibrations of the room change.

The idea of providing places where practitioners gather to learn, to share, to meditate, to socialize, takes AYP to a new level and provides another avenue to extend the practice to so many more.

Whether or not to franchise, whether or not to have dedicated centers run in a business manner is a topic to debate. It is a very expensive proposition. There are the setup costs. And trying to provide a family income from such a center in southern California would be very difficult indeed after business expenses are met. The same goes anywhere else the cost of living is very high. To provide the income to run a dedicated center may require steep tuition charges for students, which defeats the purpose of trying to pull as many people into AYP as possible. But there are so many ideas to explore along these lines.  

For example, consider the use of association club houses or community centers or schools (after hours) to provide an avenue for AYP meditation lessons.  However, a dedicated place where AYP practitioners could socialize and learn sounds better, rather than set hours at a community center.

Alternatively, consider a ‘grass roots’ effort, where AYP members used their own homes as AYP centers.  Flyers could be posted in places where people meet (churches, community centers, universities, junior colleges, etc) to inform people when meetings would be occurring and where.

The goal must also be clear. Is it to spread basic AYP meditation and get as many people meditating as possible? Is it that and advanced practices? Does it include the teaching of asanas? (I’m thinking additional liability insurance needed here…)

Just some initial rambling thoughts on an exciting topic.
In all love,
Kathy

[Sparkle]

No matter what happens it should probably happen in a relaxed, organic and enjoyable way. What Kathy says makes sense to me for something that could happen immediately if people wished it.
Kathy said:
Alternatively, consider a ‘grass roots’ effort, where AYP members used their own homes as AYP centers. Flyers could be posted in places where people meet (churches, community centers, universities, junior colleges, etc) to inform people when meetings would be occurring and where

This is something I had in mind myself because I am very familiar with the power of meditating in a group - of course this would probably add another dimension to self pacing, because of the added purifying effect.
Where I am nobody else I know has heard of AYP so the ground is fresh and virginal. There are a few people interested and initially people are receptive to meeting once a month, just to get together and, if nothing else to socialise - of course this is pre-requisite for anything that happens in Ireland.
If it comes off I will let you know how it goes, but nothing is going to happen overnight.

Those business cards are a great idea, it makes it very easy to just hand one to a friend as an introduction.
S

[Etherfish]

Weaver said:
"I just wanted to comment on this from Etherfish, (not saying that you suggested it!) that I think it would be wrong to present AYP to the world with the intent to attract people to AYP, or trying to "sell" AYP, from only the perspective of some of its effects or "scenery" that may appeal to most people, for example to reduce stress, improve your sex life"

I don't see what's wrong with this. Most people will never figure out that God is what they really want. So if you had several commercials, starting with several "hooks", one to reduce stress, one to improve sex life, etc. and every one of them would end describing the true purpose of AYP, it would be honest, but giving them what they THINK they want.
So you are honestly selling them what they are asking for, and much better than the drugs or creams they already spend for. Then as a big bonus you show them what they really want.

Personally I don't like meditating in a group. I may not have experienced it fully yet, but I tried it once and didn't like it. i couldn't go as "deep" as I do by myself. I did like the people though.

nagoyasea said:
"Whether or not to franchise, whether or not to have dedicated centers run in a business manner is a topic to debate. It is a very expensive proposition. There are the setup costs. And trying to provide a family income from such a center in southern California would be very difficult indeed after business expenses are met. The same goes anywhere else the cost of living is very high. To provide the income to run a dedicated center may require steep tuition charges for student"

This is the same environment I live in, here in Denver, Colorado. The best way to run something like this would be on a non-profit basis. The person who owns a non-profit can earn an income from it as long as the business doesn't make a profit. That's how churches are run. I don't know if you can do that as a franchise or not. If not, there are probably other legal words you could use that would accomplish the same thing.

I visited a zen center in Seattle Washington that was used as primarily a meditation center. It was non-profit, and jointly owned by two different zen groups that had different philosophies. It was built out of a house where members had donated labor and materials to remodel it. of course zoning laws had to be checked. They both share in making payments on the house, and they each use it half the time by splitting the schedule.
One person's name is primarily on the loan documents, and they have legal agreements with the others. There is one main room with a shiny wood floor and entirely surrounded by black zabuton cushions with a black zafu cushion on top. The room is usually dark, but with sconce lights around the walls on a dimmer. Each member brings whatever else they need if they don't like what's there. Each member pays $15 a month but they are free to bring a friend for free.
I imagine someone had to come up with a down payment and someone has to take responsibility for the maintenance and bills. i know another non-profit that has maintenance taken care of by members who are short of money.
It might be possible to build AYP centers in areas like ours like this. All it takes is one person with the $20,000 down payment. And some kind of agreement that $1 per member per month or whatever would be sent to Yogani.

[trip1]

I'd think this would be the next logical step for AYP.  How far off it is, who knows, but you can count me in when it happens.

[Sparkle]

You have a good point Etherfish about the zen centre example. A group of us in Ireland have been involved in zen practice through the teachings of Thich Nhat Hanh and we are only now begining to get organised.
The place we practice on a weekly basis is a nice room in a Complimentary Health Centre. The person who runs it also practices with us and provides the room free of charge. We each give an optional donation of €5 per evening. This soon mounts up when there are no expenses and everything is voluntary.
At present I am trying to put a website together as an umbrella site for all the groups ( Sanghas) in Ireland. With this in place we hope to get more organised and tempt Thich Nhat Hanh himself to give a retreat here.
Other groups or Sanghas meet in houses or rent a room. There are so many holistic centres in Ireland where one can rent a space conducive to meditation that it would not be necessary to have one's own premises. I don't know how this applies to the US and other places.

Having said this, the central core of the practice recommended by Thich Nhat Hanh is based around the Sangha or group practice, which is different than AYP.
Personaly I like the the core of the practice to be in the daily practice, as recommended by AYP.
It emphasises the importance of the daily routine and so people are not depending on the weekly fix (as they might in traditional church going for instance).
It also takes the reponsibility directly to the individual, not only for the practice but also for their own self pacing. In group situations I have found that people are inclined to hand over their power and sense of repsonsibility to the teacher or leader of the group.
Having said that, it is difficult to see AYP growing beyond a certain stage without local groups involved and AYP teachers to spread the practice. Yogani can only spread himself so far.
Louis

[Etherfish]

louis, very good input. i like Thich nhat hanh and use to read his books.
I was a little turned off once when I saw a movie of him walking in the
sun with a follower keeping step with him shading Hanh's head with a big feather.
But I passed it off; it may not have been his idea, or maybe he has lupus or something.
he's a very good writer.

Very good idea about renting rooms in existing facilities. I didn't think of that.
i'm sure we could do that here- There are churches, community centers, etc.

You said they charge "€5" per evening. What is the name of that symbol before the 5 so
I can have it converted to american dollars?

Thanks,
Etherfish