So-Hi
USA
481 Posts
Posted - Jul 01 2015 : 12:29:53 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Topic Reply with Quote View user's IP address Get a Link to this Message Delete Topic
Hello it has been observed that there is a segment of people encountering what is considered addictions to chemicals, Alcohol, Marijuana, Hallucinogens, etc? and so on. Not necessarily just here but in person have even communicated with, people experimenting with strong Plants like Ayahuasca. The segment found here is not the unaware, most are of the emerging from this is all there is kind and are seeking to develop and have been drawn to the superior addiction of Yoga.
I would like to bring some observations out and no this is not a Nancy Reagan just say no to drugs speech.
It has always been disturbing to hear people say things like Cannabis is a paranoid plant this plant is this kind of plant and that. Oh but unlike Alcohol this or that plant is all natural, funny concidering even Alcohol comes from plants.
What is more disturbing is hearing this from today?s young people living through their twenties & thirties, it is disturbing because close to 30 years ago the same sh*t talk was being made by my contemporaries when I was living through my 20?s.
Back then it was disgusting to see aging dirty, filthy middle age hippies corrupting young girls with their poisonous B.S. and drugs.
The word Love was completely perverted and the real deal was just sensual enjoyment having sex with young girls. For the young girls there was often a heavy price to pay for their partaking in these enjoyments and many unhappy bastards sired in less than fortunate circumstances.
Making the point to them that most pharmaceuticals are derived from plants fails to get their attention just because it grows naturally does not mean safety in consuming it is automatically implied!
To make matters worse the whole discussion then gets into greedy corporations, political agendas conspiracy theories etc? and it results in a pointless conversation ending in pretty much what could be best summed up as ?Hey man I?m going to keep doing what feels good. ?
The only problem for me with this, is as the years have gone by I am still living and many of my dear ones from the past that embraced the safeness of plants are dead by the time they were in their 40?s.
This does not make me feel glad, this does not make me feel superior this does not make me feel see I was right you should have listened.
How this makes me feel is very sad and old because I miss them and think of them almost every day and still see their young faces as they were, while the mirror shows the not so young face of a stranger and has done so for so many years. Yes they were drug addicted, hard to get along with, impossible to maintain relationships with yet still some of the most loving, raw, hurting people in need of relief, very precious, very astute, very intelligent, very sweet loving people but failed to develop effective means of coping with this temporary life.
When it comes to the use of drugs and other substances to include alcohol not only the less socially accepted chemicals in certain societies, doing without is probably best.
Why? Anything that you put in your body that affects your Neurobiology ultimately becomes just one more impurity to clear out.
The symptoms described having to do with Kundalini movements are the impurities being unwound and released. Some are very painful confusing and debilitating if they come too soon.
Coming too soon has many ways of happening depending upon the unique matrix of obstructions and there are many triggers certainly chemicals are one of them and incorrect Yoga practices focusing in the crown is another.
In AYP and other Yoga Practices one practices certain techniques twice daily removing the impurities. It makes no sense to keep pumping fresh water into a bucket to clean it out from the left while at the same time shoveling mud into it from the right.
It is certain people do this though.
Why?
Because as many have undoubtedly discovered allot of the obstructions being unwound & removed feel very good.
Kundalini movement has gotten a very bad rap from all the over the top horror stories but there is also the other side of the coin the bliss and the good feelings.
Smart people even eventually figure out hey if I take this or drink that I will be adding x amount of impurity to the system then if I sit and practice the ecstatic conductivity Kundalini will move and when it encounters the obstructions as it unwinds them it feels great.
What they do not yet know is that the more subtle levels of cleaning feel even better, the experiences and just living afterwards feels so much better but this take time and one has to develop into this by becoming ever more aware of the ever more subtle a little at a time it is like holding your hand on a vibrating tool after a while the sense of touch is overwhelmed and it takes a while for it to come back but until then some fine details cannot be felt. This takes time and can?t be rushed.
When the finer details can be felt then the desire to feel the more coarse details ceases. With the cessation of desire to feel the coarse details so goes the desire to add impurities, because what was once felt as pleasure no longer can compare to the pleasure of the finer touch and in fact is irritating to the touch as the capacity to feel fine detail develops.
Effective AYP practices twice daily are the tools for getting to this finer touch.
So it is thought many pollute themselves and purify themselves at first.
So it is thought many realize they can influence this polluting and purifying and do so until at some point enough ability to perceive finer states occurs and then little by little the polluting by ingesting intoxicants ceases in favor of the more satisfying drug of YOGA.
It reminds me of when I quit smoking years ago. I realized that I really did not enjoy smoking, nor was smoking being done for enjoyment what felt good was not the ingesting of the smoke it was the body fighting like hell to clear out the toxin.
What led to the picking up the cigarette again was to re-live the bliss of unwinding the impurities by introducing such a strong impurity or toxin the body had no choice but to work overtime to clear the poison.
When this happens stillness moves and ecstatic conductivity or Kundalini gets off it?s dead ass and does something or the body will die. It movs for many it is surmised this is their first knowing of Kundalini, while the bulk of it may be dormant it is never truly an all or nothing proposition.
This is not the cycle of withdrawal but the cycle of purposeful intoxication in order to experience purification.
Intoxication is false; purification is false stillness is true.
Withdrawl is recognizing stillness and the ability to suffer it while entertaining it in a nervous system that has been on a rollercoaster ride for far to long. Eventually stillness can be sustained.
This is the way of the addict.
This cycle is one of ignorance and recognizing it for what it is does not provide a sliver bullet. Stillness needs to be not only cultivated but the system needs to be prepared in order to contain stillness and work in stillness in the first place.
If looked at clearly it can be seen that all enjoyment is derived by the system attempting to purify itself and return to stillness even the withdrawl pains of quitting smoking can be quite pleasurable like the keenest knife producing so much pain it feels good when you cut yourself and in a brief instant recognize hey not only did that not really heurt but ift felt good.
What is pleasure? What is pain if not the same coin with two faces that are but one?
Pleasure is the body clearing a neuro transmitter from the nerves that has caused a state of imbalance.
All pleasure is attempts to purify unwind and reside in stillness.
Same goes for pain.
Yogis / Swamis etc?. are in a sense the biggest addicts and pleasure seeking perverts of all time if they are honest enough and can see it for what it is.
Physical sex and outwards coming in sensations cannot begin to match the higher ecstasies of yoga as the impurities are directly removed by more and more subtle means.
They are / we are all stillness junkies, but first they are / we are bliss addicts. Why because we / they learn how to directly interact and alter the the nervous system by certain means using first the intoxicant of breath.
Then we learn how to use the drug of mind, then we learn to use the drug of vital energy, then we learn how to experience the drug of stillness then we learn how to move stillness, then we learn how to plant the seeds for our continuing purification and all of this is a huge sweeping motion of REDUCTION, removing all that is not what we truly are and every step along the way to uncovering revealing and exposing what we truly are feels great every step along the way.
Pleasure is the path. Makes sense we all move towards pleasure and avoid pain even the ant does this.
From a certain point of view it can be seen no matter what we do it is all moving us in the direction of our spiritual evolution and it is a pretty big motion that encompasses everyone, no one is left out.
There are so many people taking so many substances some are very strong plants like that Ayahuasca plant mentioned in the beginning.
These people are having very strong experiences.
The biggest problem with this kind of tampering with the nervous system is that it is uncontrolled and the person simply has not paid their dues and adapted to this kind of living experience overtime in such a way that it is sustainable.
This is illegally entering a home to which they have no right or proper ability to perceive correctly and often they are left bewildered and little better for the experience in any measurable way.
Often they are just stunned afterwards and mistake this for spiritual awakening when in fact it is an extreme overload and they are in a walking stunned state remembering the beauty and even recognizing the limitations encountered while where they went like the inability to enter the light they perceive or to be able to interact with it.
Sometimes they have great fear and develop mistaken beliefs as their mind cannot put where they are into a correct meaningful context and fills in the blanks with stories of darkness etc?
Unfortunately some even mistakenly believe from this brief visit to a dimension of mind time and space they are not suited / adequately prepared to actually inhabit that now they are enlightened and the truth of the matter is that there is AWAKE and then there is really Awake.
This enlightenment is as a new born infants first exposure to the world after being forcefully squeezed and ejected from the vagina of the mother they / it is wet, tender, soft and helpless unable to interact or communicate in short you have to grow up and that is the way of life and of enlightenment, attempt to short cut it if you want but you will just have to come back and live.
But what happens when from doing this you become disoriented in both realms???
What happens when your judgement becomes so effected you do things that get you terminated from your employment and you are no longer maintaining your life but living off the charity of others?
Think about it. From personal memories of knowing people who have it has been seen nothing good comes of it in the long run.
So what kind of addict would you rather be?
Type A. The Pleasure Addict that is ingesting chemicals visiting subtle refined states of being as a wet unformed aborted infant that is still supposed to be gestating in the mother and since they have exited the mothers vagina prematurely they have yet to form skin, to develop eyes with which to see and ears with which to hear or a brain with which to perceive and comprehend such an environment let alone legs with which to walk and hands with which to work?
Type B. The Yoga pleasure Addict that realizes they are an addict to pleasure and is slowly working their way to stillness in a slow and methodical way developing the organs to perceive in subtle realms, growing in this life while aging and dying to it at the same time, understanding this life is our gestation period and there is no point to emerging from Mother Earths vagina prematurely and ill formed.
This yoga addict prefers to gestate longer rather than be evacuated incomplete and insensate bewildered in anenvironment he is not yet able to function in.
Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts
Posted - Jul 01 2015 : 3:23:18 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit Bodhi Tree's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Get a Link to this Reply Delete Reply
It's all about leading by example. Don't attack the darkness; spread the light. Radiance...
Go to Top of Page
So-Hi
USA
481 Posts
Posted - Jul 01 2015 : 3:42:32 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Get a Link to this Reply Delete Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Bodhi Tree
It's all about leading by example. Don't attack the darkness; spread the light. Radiance...
Hello Bodhi tree maybe you could spell this out a bit more, what was expressed here has been something building up for quite a while desiring release, open to discussion.
Go to Top of Page
kumar ul islam
United Kingdom
679 Posts
Posted - Jul 01 2015 : 3:47:39 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Get a Link to this Reply Delete Reply
amen bodhi
Go to Top of Page
Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts
Posted - Jul 01 2015 : 4:44:16 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit Bodhi Tree's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Get a Link to this Reply Delete Reply
Well, check out my website:
www.ayprecovery.orgBasically, I've had to learn the hard way that there is no effectiveness in trying to persuade anyone to stop using drugs/alcohol (hence the failure of Prohibition in the 1920's and the War on Drugs in present day). Rather, I have found it useful to highlight what Yogani calls a "divine addiction" to full-scope yoga practices, as you also mention.
Last night I was hanging out with an old friend who stills smoke pot, and though I think he would be better without it, I don't force the issue. Actually, I still the enjoy the aroma of marijuana. I've been thinking of using it as incense, like sage. Also, the usefulness of hemp has been quite evident for centuries. But for me, the days of smoking it are long gone.
Anyway, I think you make plenty of good points, and I don't think you're "anti" or prohibitionist by any means, so we're on the same page. It's certainly useful to compare and contrast in a passionate way. Glad you are promoting the superior methods of transcendence!
Clarity. Fluidity. Resilience.
Go to Top of Page
So-Hi
USA
481 Posts
Posted - Jul 01 2015 : 5:36:35 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Get a Link to this Reply Delete Reply
Hello Bodhi, thank you for that communication. Will have to take a look at your site.
Apologies to all if this writing has came off as an attempt to convince anyone, that is not the intent as it has been well learned, long ago that is truly impossible.
In fact I do not view a person who ingests chemicals of any kind as any different than one who does not all are truly on their way to the same thing but it has been observed that sometimes it really is making things harder than they need to be.
This brings up sadness due to my own inner matrix of obstructions though as well loved people have passed early in life that were working out there existance with substance use.
Who is anyone to judge a person taking chemicles? might it also not be they are doing exactly as they should in the first place during this phase?
As one who does believe in reincarnation it is just viewed as practice on the way and eventually will get dropped like so many other things.
Oh and like the Sutras
quote:
Clarity. Fluidity. Resilience.
Clarity is a favorite.
Go to Top of Page
HideshPranachard
USA
3 Posts
Posted - Jul 05 2015 : 7:43:25 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Get a Link to this Reply Delete Reply
I have found that drug addiction results from unhealed emotional pain. There is almost always some kind of trauma or severe limiting beliefs that create great psychological, existential and even physical pain that drugs give escape from.
In every case I have seen, lasting healing incorporates some kind of work to deal with these underlying causes, in addition to holistic lifestyle therapy including diet and spiritual practices such as yoga and meditation.
Go to Top of Page
Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts
Posted - Jul 05 2015 : 10:09:40 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit Bodhi Tree's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Get a Link to this Reply Delete Reply
To be born into a body is painful, emotionally and physically, so saying that drug addiction is a result of unhealed emotional pain is like saying that breathing air is the result of an inability to cope with trauma. It's a clinical, limited view. Since life itself is one ongoing traumatic experience from the very beginning, we have to go beyond the initial traumatic experience of birth...to stillness.
Trauma is not the source of addiction. Desire is the source of addiction (sprung from stillness). Of course, trauma can fuel addiction, due to efforts to mask and soothe pain, but deeper than that, is the desire for transcendence, which is called bhakti in yoga.
One mistake that's being made on a broad scale is trying to "treat" addiction. That is the business of Freudian psychotherapists and pharmacologists, and they're not getting to the root of the problem or solution. It's a matter of depth. The deeper we look, the deeper the healing, and the deeper the transformation. Trying to pinpoint certain past experiences analytically or surgically might be slightly helpful, but it's a lot like looking for a needle in a haystick, i.e. absurd.
Simply put, addiction is desire run amok. Bhakti is desire cultivated to its full potential.
There is only way to transform addiction, and that is to tap into the bhakti of the heart, and to direct it to one's chosen ideal. It is remarkably simple, and it is the only way that truly works in a permanent fashion.
Go to Top of Page
Charliedog
1562 Posts
Posted - Jul 06 2015 : 07:18:14 AM Show Profile Email Poster Visit Charliedog's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Get a Link to this Reply Delete Reply
Thanks for sharing your observations So-Hi. Writing helps. Writing your observations leads to your desired clarity.
My observation at this moment is that observations are mostly seen from a personal view.
Love, Radiance, Strenght
Edit: Samyama and Solarcentering are beautiful AYP practices I have learned here.
Edited by - Charliedog on Jul 06 2015 10:43:33 AM
Go to Top of Page
So-Hi
USA
481 Posts
Posted - Jul 06 2015 : 10:26:40 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Get a Link to this Reply Delete Reply
quote:
Since life itself is one ongoing traumatic experience from the very beginning, we have to go beyond the initial traumatic experience of birth...to stillness.
Wow Bodhi Tree that wisdom shook me, Bravo no tuer words have ever been written.
Trama is not a matter of something not remembered or something one avoids it is a simple fact of life, we all gravitate towards pleasure and gravitate away from pain or trama. I burned myself badly as a child that was trama from this avoidance of picking up a spent sparkler was learned. In fact when fireworks are sold these are seen and a natural moving away from occurs and the event is remembered. How this or anything like it is supposed to lead to chemical use makes no sense at all.
quote:
Trying to pinpoint certain past experiences analytically or surgically might be slightly helpful, but it's a lot like looking for a needle in a haystick, i.e. absurd.
Quotable again. It is also observed here that knowing what may be a painfull fill in the blank does not by the knowing of it or remembering make it less so.
Another thing in error is when people who look at the use of chemicals as an escape. Lol sure that maybe part of it but it also has to be understood People are enjoying themselve by ingesting these chemicals as well. That is until the time comes where it is either replaced by something better or perhaps it goes too far and becomes pain.
So where do you draw the line? Hmmmm... Is the person who has one or two drinks a night fullfills all their worldly obligations an addict? or simply enjoying themselves?
Maybe it is the substance Wine is ok, but Whisky is bad?
Pot ok, Hash is bad?
We all are on our way to the same thing and the road is one paved in pleasure, otherwise no one would ever take it up in the first place.
Even the smallest of creatures take an ant for example moves away from pain, Magnifying glass hot summer day do the math...what they think of as pleasure can not be known.
Pleasure of ecstatic conductivity gives leads to stillness. BUt what then?
We find stillness moves and has vibration also, Pain is a vibration so is pleasure all is in motion.
Hi Charliedog Of course from whom elses point of view shall a writting be done
Go to Top of Page
Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts
Posted - Jul 06 2015 : 10:59:48 AM Show Profile Email Poster Visit Bodhi Tree's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Get a Link to this Reply Delete Reply
Great observations, So-Hi. I think you touched upon some key points, especially in regards to pleasure and pain.
We shy away from pain, and favor pleasure, and what greater pleasure is there than to become an outpouring of divine love?
Re: the person who drinks moderately and without causing much visible trouble...well, it is all just shades of addiction, really. To me, there is no definite line between addict and non-addict. There are just varying degrees of intensity. That's why I don't buy into the "alcoholic" identity, and I have explored that topic in depth on my website in the "Why AYP?" section. AA tries to hammer that identity into people, and it is a big error and disservice, in my opinion. But, the identity is easily dissolved with AYP techniques.
Speaking of, it's time for me to do a synchronized meditation with an AYP buddy across the country. Great distancws in time and space aren't so daunting, after all.
Go to Top of Page
Charliedog
1562 Posts
Posted - Jul 06 2015 : 11:23:27 AM Show Profile Email Poster Visit Charliedog's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Get a Link to this Reply Delete Reply
Originally posted by So-Hi
Hi Charliedog Of course from whom elses point of view shall a writting be done
So-Hi we just crossed, I edited. What I meant is that writing your observations gives clarity to you. The reader has his own opinion. Depending on his or her personal view. We can share opinions but it is not helping, the only way out of the personal drama is by finding Inner silence and practice, not by many words.
Sharing silence helps, but sharing silence on the forum is not so easy so here we have to use words. This is my paradox observation of this moment, willing to help, knowing I can't, not with words.
Samyama and Solar centering, inner Silence, Stillness in Action, helps.
Love & Light
Edited by - Charliedog on Jul 06 2015 11:44:34 AM
Go to Top of Page
So-Hi
USA
481 Posts
Posted - Jul 06 2015 : 11:24:55 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Get a Link to this Reply Delete Reply
All of life is an addiction.
Watch a person dying sometime you will see they are very addicted to this life and the withdrawals are terrible some hold on until the body becomes so unfit to express in, that it resembles a corpse more than a walking down the road human being.
This has been seen first hand.
Somewhere deep inside everyone without exception knows that this is not it.
Most are afraid to even consider this truth, you issued forth from stillness you will return to stillness.
The original problem is people are born of people who know nothing more about the reality of existence than they do, and that is a shame.
Infants birthing infants. The only difference is maturity of the body but both the parent and the child are a drift in an existence of ignorance and difficulty making ends meet to survive this horrible condition in a body.
Not being able to face up to these simple facts people do what they can to exist to get along be productive or even non productive members of society, God but I want to scream sometimes and yell WAKE UP!!!! most of you will not be here longer than 80 short years if you make it that long even.
Do not be afraid, do what you have to to earn your way, but after that seek to understand who and what you really are, because sooner or later it is going to come to be dealt with and better to be aquatinted than to exit this life in fear. You are one heart beat away from this, only minutes with out air. This is TEMPORARY NOT IT !!
May the shared writings of Yogani's sites help alleviate this.
By the practices of AYP it is certain addiction is lessened at the very least or removed entirely, the purification of the subconscious by the practice of Deep Meditation is the only rational way to approach such a cleansing because it is impossible to remember or even completely bring to the forefront what ever may have been lodged there then if you add the idea of reincarnation into it God alone knows how much debris unrelated to this life need to unwind, so digging it out manually and examining it is a dead end.
I do believe in reincarnation and it is clear with this theory of spiritual evolution that what we are has been many things on it?s road to becoming human with this highly advanced nervous system, it is also clear that allot of the things we have been had to develop certain reflexes, in time things like digesting became reflexive for the single cell organism that was probably quite a feat to learn. So there is allot of stuff that is still hanging on well after the automated has become not even noticed that is part of the unwinding or so it is thought.
Go to Top of Page
Charliedog
1562 Posts
Posted - Jul 06 2015 : 12:18:25 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit Charliedog's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Get a Link to this Reply Delete Reply
Originally posted by So-Hi
May the shared writings of Yogani's sites help alleviate this.
Love Radiate Strength Wisdom
Go to Top of Page
Dogboy
USA
1614 Posts
Posted - Jul 06 2015 : 2:06:43 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Get a Link to this Reply Delete Reply
I like how this thread has evolved. I have high regard for Yogani's prediction that "a change is a gonna come"; all we have to do is do our practice and spread our bliss outward like a love tsunami, and the world eventually gets swept along. Note those addictions, those adverse desires, but keep them under the hood. The process will do the housecleaning for you as you surrender to openness
Edit:wording
Edited by - Dogboy on Jul 06 2015 2:07:49 PM
Go to Top of Page
kumar ul islam
United Kingdom
679 Posts
Posted - Jul 06 2015 : 3:16:29 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Get a Link to this Reply Delete Reply
Give .love serve.
Go to Top of Page
Charliedog
1562 Posts
Posted - Jul 06 2015 : 3:24:31 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit Charliedog's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Get a Link to this Reply Delete Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Dogboy
I like how this thread has evolved. I have high regard for Yogani's prediction that "a change is a gonna come"; all we have to do is do our practice and spread our bliss outward like a love tsunami, and the world eventually gets swept along. Note those addictions, those adverse desires, but keep them under the hood. The process will do the housecleaning for you as you surrender to openness
Edit:wording
Go to Top of Page
Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts
Posted - Jul 06 2015 : 6:42:43 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit Bodhi Tree's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Get a Link to this Reply Delete Reply
"The woods are lovely, dark and deep,
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep."
