A Criticism of Sexual Spirituality

[Christi]

Hi Hanna,

 

quote:I believe Naz is a female; either she stated that or someone else made a comment regarding her gender. (Apologies if I am incorrect, Naz!) At any rate, I believe this thread began with a very valid discussion which soon deteriorated into ego bickering. Would anyone care to resume the topic? I believe I have already given my input. I also do agree with Naz that the topic of "tantra" (as in the lower kaula form) was likely brought up originally by Yogani partially for marketing and sales, and in fact, I believe at one point, he made a post about the upcoming Tantra book, stating that he was hoping it would increase sales, although I cannot find it by doing a search. Perhaps it has since been deleted.

I think Naz is a man. Maybe we should place bets ! Or is that not very satvic ?

Seriously though, As far as the idea of Yogani introducing sexual tantric practices for the sake of marketing, I don't think it is very credible. If he was really interested in using tantra to make money, he could easily set up a website called something like : "Yoga and sex, how to use sex to get everything you ever wanted." (Actually I have just patented that title in case anyone else was thinking of using it. ) Also, he would have brought the book on tantra out first, and marketed it with the word sex in big letters on the front, and a picture of a scantily clad woman doing some random asana on a glossy book cover. (Could be a good idea Yogani if you are still reading on, increasing sales and all that )

But the point that you made about sex and the demonic forces is, I believe, a valid one. But the question is, was it the sexual practices that your friend was doing, that invited the demon into her marriage, or was your friend already pre-disposed to such forces, and the sexual practices simply acted as a forum for that connection to take place? By the way you write, it sounds like your friend was not objecting to the situation. Was this the case or did I misread you? Was she harmed, or is she still being harmed by this demonic force?

Christi

[soundsleep]

Naz, I totally disagree with you. If everyone had your attitude the Human race would become extinct. How can sex be 'demonic?' Sex is a normal part of a healthy relationship, and I can spiritually grow and exit the rebirth cycle without having to live my final lifetime as celibate. Some people prefer celibacy, some prefer union with a life partner.

[mufad]

In response to kirtanman,

quote:
The question is:
Is It Love at the Heart of This?

I wonder if sex has anything to do with Love.
I think Love makes sex beautiful, but sex makes Love ugly

As I understand, the energy normally (ie for most people in this age) flows downward and outward, we use ayp techniques to reverse this flow inward and upward. This I understand to be transmutation. We try to conserve the vital essence (ojas) so that it may be refined, transmuted and assimilated in our nervous system. Our sitting practice helps in this process.

Kechari Mudhra is sometimes referred to as "Spiritual Sex". I guess we tend to reduce the frequency of 'down and out' sex, when we start experience orgasmic results from 'in and up' spiritual sex. May be yogani can confirm this observation.  I doubt if "spiritual sex" is possible with a partner.

In the great vedic epic "The Mahabharata" (of which the the Bhagvad Gita, the bible of Hindu Scriptures forms a part), the war between the pandavas and the kauravas is described in detail. Some teachings (see http://amazon.com/dp/0876120303 ) interpret this war as an internal war between good and evil that has to be fought by every individual. In this interpretation, each character of the MahaBharata corresponds to an internal quality. "Self Control" and "Desire/Lust" are symbolised by Arjuna and Duryodhana who are the main warriors of each side in the war.

The reason I bring this Epic War here, is that the spiritual path can be seen as war between good and evil and the Mahabharata according to some teachings, is an allegorical detailed description of that war. So physical sex can be seen as one of the great enemies to be defeated before emperor soul can reclaim the lost paradise within. In that view physical sex is bad - something to grow out of as we evolve into more spiritual beings. May be something to be killed ? I know it is far easier to make peace with our lower/demonic self but could it be that to eventually overcome maya we will have to destroy that part of our humanity and replace it with another mode of creation at will ? Samayana ?

Acting in Stillness,
Mufad.

[yogani]

quote:Originally posted by mufad

 ...As I understand, the energy normally (ie for most people in this age) flows downward and outward, we use ayp techniques to reverse this flow inward and upward. This I understand to be transmutation. We try to conserve the vital essence (ojas) so that it may be refined, transmuted and assimilated in our nervous system. Our sitting practice helps in this process.

Kechari Mudhra is sometimes referred to as "Spiritual Sex". I guess we tend to reduce the frequency of 'down and out' sex, when we start experience orgasmic results from 'in and up' spiritual sex. May be yogani can confirm this observation.  I doubt if "spiritual sex" is possible with a partner.

In the great vedic epic "The Mahabharata" (of which the the Bhagvad Gita, the bible of Hindu Scriptures forms a part), the war between the pandavas and the kauravas is described in detail. Some teachings (see http://amazon.com/dp/0876120303 ) interpret this war as an internal war between good and evil that has to be fought by every individual. In this interpretation, each character of the MahaBharata corresponds to an internal quality. "Self Control" and "Desire/Lust" are symbolised by Arjuna and Duryodhana who are the main warriors of each side in the war.

The reason I bring this Epic War here, is that the spiritual path can be seen as war between good and evil and the Mahabharata according to some teachings, is an allegorical detailed description of that war. So physical sex can be seen as one of the great enemies to be defeated before emperor soul can reclaim the lost paradise within. In that view physical sex is bad - something to grow out of as we evolve into more spiritual beings. May be something to be killed? I know it is far easier to make peace with our lower/demonic self but could it be that to eventually overcome maya we will have to destroy that part of our humanity and replace it with another mode of creation at will ? Samayana ?

Acting in Stillness,

Hi Mufad:

Kechari mudra is a higher form of ecstatic stimulation, but not the only form. As inner silence rises and ecstatic conductivity awakens, a whole range of techniques and actions become ecstatic and spiritually progressive, including tantric sex. Before the prerequisite inner silence and ecstatic awakening are there, the effects of kechari will be muted, and the benefits of tantric sex will be limited, though there can be some benefit in doing either or both as support to our awakening. However, these methods are not primary awakeners.  They find their effectiveness flying on the wings of inner silence cultivated in deep meditation and ecstatic conductivity cultivated in spinal breathing pranayama. When the prerequisites are there, everything becomes ecstatic and spiritually progressive, even taking a walk or eating lunch.

The idea of choosing an "enemy" as spiritual practice, whether it be sex or any other thing we feel may be standing in our way, is contradictory, because it emphasizes divisiveness. There cannot be union (yoga) as long as we hold anyone or anything as separate -- especially as opposed to us.

On the other hand, we cannot deny that we live in duality and must make choices and take sides, even if our inner silence seems not to. In time, the movements of inner silence will make our choices more obvious, which is the natural rise of yama and niyama (spiritual conduct). In AYP, we sometimes call it outpouring divine love.  

The scriptures, with their heroes and villains, are acknowledging the fact of our duality. Even so, the call in the scriptures is invariably to go beyond all that. Isn't it so that, in the Bhagavad Gita, Krishna tells Arjuna to forget about making value judgments (pro or con) about the "enemy" and just go do his duty as a soldier? As yogis and yoginis, we can also heed that advice by letting go of making value judgments about sex or anything else, and just do our duty in practices and in life, according to what we know will yield the best results. It is the efficient execution of cause and effect ... with no enemies in sight, even if they may seem to be there from other points of view. We do have some flexibility in choosing our point of view at any point in time. When the clouds have cleared, inner silence is the only point of view. We are That.

The guru is in you.

[mufad]

Thanks Yogani for that,
Do you think the frequency and attraction of 'down and out' sex decreases automatically as we grow in 'in and up' spiritual ecstasy ?

After my post above, I had an equation forming in my mind as
Love = God, Silence, Bliss, Shiva, Amrita
Sex = Nature, Energy, Ectacy, Shakti, Kundalini
Love + Sex = Life, Dance, Play, Union, Awakening

In the Start of the Gita, Arjuna refuses to fight because he sees his own brothers and teachers among the enemies, Krishna convinces Arjuna that he should do his duty and destroy his enemies, that is the whole of the Gita. We do not 'choose' our enemies we only learn to recognise them and deal with them. It is important to know your enemy and fight it, not underestimate it, that is our duty.

I think AYP is about transformation - spiritual evolution. Something has to change into something else - then we can claim that we were always that and there is nothing to achieve !

Good and Evil are two strong forces appearing in everything and at every stage - the choice is ours - Yes Inner Silence helps us make that choice, but that choice is same for everyone. Basic Yama Niama cannot be different for different people.

All religions teach us to avoid overindulgance in sex, our inner silence confirms the same, children see sex as dirty, the guilt and low energy after-effects of sex are very real - not just social conditioning - is sex the curse of mankind or the comforter - is it an enemy or a friend ? We can accept ourselves as we are and move forward in our spirituality by practicing ay techniques but I think the more we grow in spirituality the less attraction we will have for ‘down and out’ sex. That is my view now but I am open to any revelations others may have.

Be well equipped - We are at war here!
Silence and Love, Ah the mystery of it all :-)
Let there be Joy, Bliss, Ecstasy, lots of conductivity and clean windows,
Om Peace,
Mufad.

[yogani]

quote:Originally posted by mufad

Do you think the frequency and attraction of 'down and out' sex decreases automatically as we grow in 'in and up' spiritual ecstasy ?

Hi Mufad:

It can be like that. But the timing and sequence of change will depend on the person. Some may be more inclined toward sex for longer, and it will not be a liability if the methods of tantric sex are known -- pre-orgasmic cultivation. In that case, sex can be an advantage.

This is not a call for sex. Just a call for smart sex when engaged as one might normally be in the course of life. This can help cultivate the flowering of ecstatic conductivity and the divine romance within -- the 'in and up' you mention. And if not engaged in sexual relations, that is okay too. There are also tantric methods for sitting practices -- including siddhasana and kechari. The many methods available are more than adequate to get the job done either way. To each their own. One size does not fit all.

Sex is not an enemy any more than gasoline is. If properly utilized, great good can come from both. And if carelessly used, well, you get the idea. Even the celibate will use sexuality in support of enlightenment -- the root source of ecstatic conductivity is sexuality. The dangers in forced celibacy are at least as great as in carelessly expressed sexuality. So it is good for both celibates and non-celibates to know tantric methods.

Each will choose their own path. The methods of tantra and yoga are flexible enough to accommodate any angle of approach to the divine. It can be viewed as war, romance, renunciation, or anything else, as long as practices are going on...

Yama and niyama will manifest differently through each person according to stages of purification and opening. So, while the absolute may be the same everywhere, no two people will express the absolute exactly the same. Neither will two 'enlightened' people express yama and niyama exactly the same. It makes life more interesting, and fun. Stillness in action!

Your equations are very nice. And, yes, AYP is about human spiritual transformation, with each on their own journey of discovery.  

The guru is in you.  

[Anthem]

quote:Originally posted by mufad

Thanks Yogani for that,
Do you think the frequency and attraction of 'down and out' sex decreases automatically as we grow in 'in and up' spiritual ecstasy ?

Hi Mufad,

I'll offer my perspective here, as ecstasy increases internally the need to look externally for it diminishes. As men, we become less dependent on “needing” a woman to fulfill our needs. Having said that, sex with your partner can evolve to be spiritually fulfilling as the male no longer feels the need to ejaculate and the energies are held within. As this occurs, tantric love making can occur which is a spiritual boon to both partners. Just withholding ejaculation is a boon to the male as inner energy increases and begins to move up as out is denied.

quote:It is important to know your enemy and fight it, not underestimate it, that is our duty.

It is not doing our spiritual "quest" any favours by identifying and enemy then trying to fight it. Spiritual evolution and enlightenment is about acceptance and surrender rather than divisiveness and resistance.

The ego you resist, will be empowered to come back and haunt you another day, the thoughts you accept and embrace will be transformed by your efforts and/ or fall away.

 

quote:All religions teach us to avoid overindulgance in sex, our inner silence confirms the same, children see sex as dirty, the guilt and low energy after-effects of sex are very real - not just social conditioning - is sex the curse of mankind or the comforter - is it an enemy or a friend ? We can accept ourselves as we are and move forward in our spirituality by practicing ay techniques but I think the more we grow in spirituality the less attraction we will have for ‘down and out’ sex. That is my view now but I am open to any revelations others may have.

You may want to ask yourself why you feel guilty after sex? What is there to feel guilty about and is the answer to this question a true reason to feel guilty? Why is sex dirty and is it really so? Sex with love is expanding and by adding in good tantric practices then is spiritually uplifting for both partners. Sex is as you choose to perceive it, and personally, I decide to see it as a friend rather than an enemy.
 

quote:Be well equipped - We are at war here!

What you resist will persist, be the first one to make peace and start with your own mind, it has to begin somewhere.

There's never a winner in war.

[mufad]

I had another insight after posting above,

Inner Scilence is Kishna who guides Arjuna (slef control) to do his duty and fight Duryodhana (desire). But it is ultimately Bhima (Life Force or Prana) who kills Duryodhana. It is very interesting and revealing when the mahabharata is seen this way - I get many insights into the characters from time to time - we can go into that some other time if anyone is interested.


Remember the Adam and Eve biblical story of creation ?
In "AutoBiography of a Yogi", Paramahansa Yogananda writes

quote:
"The Adam and Eve story is incomprehensible to me!" I observed with considerable heat one day in my early struggles with the allegory. "Why did God punish not only the guilty pair, but also the innocent unborn generations?"
Master was more amused by my vehemence than my ignorance. "Genesis is deeply symbolic, and cannot be grasped by a literal interpretation," he explained. "Its 'tree of life' is the human body. The spinal cord is like an upturned tree, with man's hair as its roots, and afferent and efferent nerves as branches. The tree of the nervous system bears many enjoyable fruits, or sensations of sight, sound, smell, taste, and touch. In these, man may rightfully indulge; but he was forbidden the experience of sex, the 'apple' at the center of the bodily garden.

"The 'serpent' represents the coiled-up spinal energy which stimulates the sex nerves. 'Adam' is reason, and 'Eve' is feeling. When the emotion or Eve-consciousness in any human being is overpowered by the sex impulse, his reason or Adam also succumbs.

"God created the human species by materializing the bodies of man and woman through the force of His will; He endowed the new species with the power to create children in a similar 'immaculate' or divine manner. Because His manifestation in the individualized soul had hitherto been limited to animals, instinct-bound and lacking the potentialities of full reason, God made the first human bodies, symbolically called Adam and Eve. To these, for advantageous upward evolution, He transferred the souls or divine essence of two animals. In Adam or man, reason predominated; in Eve or woman, feeling was ascendant. Thus was expressed the duality or polarity which underlies the phenomenal worlds. Reason and feeling remain in a heaven of cooperative joy so long as the human mind is not tricked by the serpentine energy of animal propensities.

"The human body was therefore not solely a result of evolution from beasts, but was produced by an act of special creation by God. The animal forms were too crude to express full divinity; the human being was uniquely given a tremendous mental capacity—the 'thousand-petaled lotus' of the brain—as well as acutely awakened occult centers in the spine.

"God, or the Divine Consciousness present within the first created pair, counseled them to enjoy all human sensibilities, but not to put their concentration on touch sensations. These were banned in order to avoid the development of the sex organs, which would enmesh humanity in the inferior animal method of propagation. The warning not to revive subconsciously-present bestial memories was not heeded. Resuming the way of brute procreation, Adam and Eve fell from the state of heavenly joy natural to the original perfect man.

"Knowledge of 'good and evil' refers to the cosmic dualistic compulsion. Falling under the sway of maya through misuse of his feeling and reason, or Eve—and Adam—consciousness, man relinquishes his right to enter the heavenly garden of divine self-sufficiency.  The personal responsibility of every human being is to restore his 'parents' or dual nature to a unified harmony or Eden."

According to this interpretation, the original sin because of which Adam and Eve (thus all mankind) falls down from heaven is the sex apple.

What do you think ?
Mufad.