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Satsang Cafe - General Questions on AYP / Renouncing sex completely, a goal?
« Last post by AYPadmin on April 17, 2020, 09:04:04 AM »interpaul
USA
91 Posts
Posted - Oct 07 2019 : 5:32:10 PM
After years of marital struggle I have come to understand my wife has no interest in sex at all. We have worked on this with years of marital counseling but I realize she may never return to an interest. She is not open to an open marriage. Porn/masturbation became repellant for me as my aging body felt exhausted and viewing that type of stimulating imagery drained me of joy. I happened upon bramacharya as an experiment to see if I could find some alternative to regular sexual relations and was surprised by how many pleasurable experiences I've had as a result of this and the AYP practices. I have read some posts declaring Yogi's have more satisfying pleasurable experiences by simply purifying the mind thru Yoga. I have had some ecstatic experiences that rival some of the best sex I've had yet I still long for that physical connection (we do cuddle but she has shut down to all other contact). Tantric sex with her is just not an option. Divorce seems like my only option at this point if I want to have a sexual relationship with a woman again, yet there is so much to loose that comes from our marriage (3 kids, financial security, friends, community etc). Have any of you found a place of acceptance in renouncing sexual relations in favor of AYP practices and are you able to feel at peace with the sacrifice, i.e. have the ecstatic blissful experiences made up for the sacrifice in your case?
jusmail
India
486 Posts
Posted - Oct 07 2019 : 10:14:17 PM
Why rock the boat at this age? Acceptance is a better path to follow rather than the ensuing mess and heartburn. If you haven't read the tantra lessons on this site, do read them. They will enlighten you a great deal.
interpaul
USA
91 Posts
Posted - Oct 08 2019 : 1:23:16 PM
Jusmail, Thanks for your comments. Yes, I have viewed the tantra lessons. I had two reactions. Firstly, they made me sad realizing in my current relationship I will not be able to experience partner tantric sex. My post essentially addresses the second point which is self tantric practices are very powerful and my initial experiences suggest there can be ecstatic states achieved thru tantra as well as just doing SBP and DM. Having these initial experiences gave me hope that I could be peaceful even within my loveless relationship in my inner experiences. Where I struggle is wondering if I am using AYP as a way of avoiding dealing with the pain of a failing marriage. Is acceptance my journey or am I using fear of leaving a marriage as an excuse for the spiritual growth that I can find in a relationship with a more open individual?
kumar ul islam
United Kingdom
716 Posts
Posted - Oct 08 2019 : 5:31:50 PM
sex is very strong instinct a moving force within all manifestations from the division of a cell to our own procreation activities ,as humans we tend to embellish ornament and attach our own personnel needs and appetites within this very basic action, a very pleasurable almost at times mystical experience ,sex has hidden depths relating to control and the power this creates in the dynamics of our personal relationships ,coupled with cultural hierarchy of male to female domination and expectations we hold with our partners ,the peak experience is easily gained in sex possible for the male more so than the female ,females choose whereas males have no choice, its difficult to renounce this urge this longing and suppression long term creates its own problems ,to be healthy needs need to satiated especially if we feel that this has become an issue revolving around a personnel relationship, to give up all one has to keep satiating sexual desire seems irrational but this is the force that wills us humans on redirecting it would seem the answer and in some ways yoga provides us with a platform for change but like everything else we humans do sacrifice becomes a hardship when the rewards are not easily and immediately attained ,are we built this way to be forever between fullness and being empty and is this what desire really is, the never never and the nearly nearly .thank you for your openness and sharing paul.
interpaul
USA
91 Posts
Posted - Oct 08 2019 : 8:41:40 PM
Kumar ul islam, Thanks you for your insights and the longest sentence of wisdom I have ever read. Your comments are poetic and leave me wanting more of the truth you point towards.
Dogboy
USA
1711 Posts
Posted - Oct 08 2019 : 8:56:15 PM
quote:
Having these initial experiences gave me hope that I could be peaceful even within my loveless relationship in my inner experiences. Where I struggle is wondering if I am using AYP as a way of avoiding dealing with the pain of a failing marriage. Is acceptance my journey or am I using fear of leaving a marriage as an excuse for the spiritual growth that I can find in a relationship with a more open individual?
A great part of my attraction to yoga is that it crosses beams with sex; that it?s essence is fuel, for marriage, for the Divine. I joke with my wife that meditation is my mistress.. We have relations twice a month, and we are in a very comfortable loving space currently, now with her sobriety. Your dilemma has me imagining if she were to say ?no more?, would it change our commitment to each other? I honestly can say it would not for me. She is a terrific friend and mother to my children, and I?m also in love with the man in the mirror, and he is always there for me.
But I am not you, and am not personally suffering from the prospect of ?no longer in sexual union? with my wife. You obviously experience pleasure from practice, definitely pursue further, to explore without shame, without fear, without worry. Yoga is so beautiful in this way!
I would not divorce, but commit to exploring your new surroundings. Allow your practices to open your heart to reconnect to the woman you chose as partner, she may still be that. Is she still open to any physical touch? Acknowledge that this new reality has hurt you, be open that your practice will allow hurt to dissolve.
Look for opportunities for touch, for play, for smiles. Offer her a massage. Compliment her. Vacuum the living room. Expect nothing from her in return.
And if, over time and in the end, this ?love blast? does not change your prospective, or hers, and you decide to split, know that you did so with the integrity that you truly gave it your best shot. Love wins out, even in this outcome.
Edited by - Dogboy on Oct 08 2019 9:09:53 PM
interpaul
USA
91 Posts
Posted - Oct 09 2019 : 11:42:37 AM
Dogboy, Thank you! I feel the place of love from which your post comes. Knowing a little of your history makes your words mean a lot to me. You inspire me to keep trying. I became very discouraged recently when my wife rejected my offer to give her a massage (without any expectation of sex) just for the pleasure and connection. She talks of how she doesn't want to "do anything" and I thought a massage would be a wonderful way to connect without her having to do anything. When I found out she is paying for massages regularly and isn't open to receiving one from me, that made me sad. I understand she thinks massage puts her in a vulnerable position where her guilt about not wanting to have sex is accentuated. Anyway I can't change her feelings but I can continue to go deeper into my practices. Having just tasted a little of the ecstatic conductivity that is building in me with my practices I am hopeful the love you speak of will continue to build internally and give me the strength to find a way back into her heart.
Dogboy
USA
1711 Posts
Posted - Oct 09 2019 : 2:29:23 PM
A loving approach is a good start, as much for yourself as for her. Get regular massages yourself, she may be on to something! Consider booking a couple?s massage your next gifting opportunity, an intimate shared experience that could be a middle ground.
lalow33
USA
966 Posts
Posted - Oct 12 2019 : 12:30:57 PM
Hey, interpaul.
My experience, you can't yoga your way out of or into a relationship that's not working for you. Tried it. Failed.
Take care,
Lori
Edited by - lalow33 on Oct 12 2019 12:55:49 PM
interpaul
USA
91 Posts
Posted - Oct 12 2019 : 6:32:47 PM
Lalow33,
Thanks for sharing your experience. I realize yoga can't change my wife. I do believe it has given me new tools to change myself. Where I struggle is a more fundamental question regarding how important sexual relations are to our general health. Having achieved non ejaculatory orgasms that are truly blissful I have reached a place of deep satisfaction internally without as much need for outside sexual relations. I wonder if I truly let go of any expectations of any further sexual relations with my wife and went deeper into these practices if this would free my wife from guilt she has related to her lack of libido. Would this free her up emotionally to reengage more with me in other spheres of intimacy. Ultimately are we here on this physical plane to have physical relations or is there a time in life where we can let go of attachment to physical pleasure generated thru sexual relations and instead move deeper inward?
Charliedog
1594 Posts
Posted - Oct 13 2019 : 03:03:41 AM
quote:
I realize yoga can't change my wife. I do believe it has given me new tools to change myself.
With the use of yoga tools, we heal and transform ourselves. We are transforming old believes, judgements and conditionings in ourselves. This could be confronting and not always easy.
quote:
I wonder if I truly let go of any expectations of any further sexual relations with my wife and went deeper into these practices if this would free my wife from guilt she has related to her lack of libido.
If we can let go expectations we will loose attachments. This means our relationships are based on unconditional love. Unconditional love has no expectations to receive something back. If we abide in unconditional love, all relationships will change, with ourselves, and with others. We are open and free, a catalyst for the healing vibrations for all of us. We realize who we truly are.
Enjoy practice,
![[3]](http://www.aypsite.com/plus-forum/Smileys/akyhne/heart.gif "Heart")
Bhakti, the science of devotion
Edited by - Charliedog on Oct 13 2019 03:13:15 AM
BlueRaincoat
United Kingdom
1550 Posts
Posted - Oct 13 2019 : 04:53:49 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Charliedog
Unconditional love has no expectations to receive something back. If we abide in unconditional love, all relationships will change, with ourselves, and with others.
Non-attachment also lets us see clearly. Interpaul, you have been very focused on the lack of sex in your marriage, so you are seeing the issue as "lack of libido" in you wife. There might be something else behind it.
Reading your posts above, I can see you have come a long way.
Having tantric sex with a partner is not essential to progress in yoga. Leaving sexual relations behind does not need to be a renunciation. Indeed, AYP does not recommend renouncing anything. Just steady progress to a state where attachments fall away.
Best wishes
USA
91 Posts
Posted - Oct 07 2019 : 5:32:10 PM
After years of marital struggle I have come to understand my wife has no interest in sex at all. We have worked on this with years of marital counseling but I realize she may never return to an interest. She is not open to an open marriage. Porn/masturbation became repellant for me as my aging body felt exhausted and viewing that type of stimulating imagery drained me of joy. I happened upon bramacharya as an experiment to see if I could find some alternative to regular sexual relations and was surprised by how many pleasurable experiences I've had as a result of this and the AYP practices. I have read some posts declaring Yogi's have more satisfying pleasurable experiences by simply purifying the mind thru Yoga. I have had some ecstatic experiences that rival some of the best sex I've had yet I still long for that physical connection (we do cuddle but she has shut down to all other contact). Tantric sex with her is just not an option. Divorce seems like my only option at this point if I want to have a sexual relationship with a woman again, yet there is so much to loose that comes from our marriage (3 kids, financial security, friends, community etc). Have any of you found a place of acceptance in renouncing sexual relations in favor of AYP practices and are you able to feel at peace with the sacrifice, i.e. have the ecstatic blissful experiences made up for the sacrifice in your case?
jusmail
India
486 Posts
Posted - Oct 07 2019 : 10:14:17 PM
Why rock the boat at this age? Acceptance is a better path to follow rather than the ensuing mess and heartburn. If you haven't read the tantra lessons on this site, do read them. They will enlighten you a great deal.
interpaul
USA
91 Posts
Posted - Oct 08 2019 : 1:23:16 PM
Jusmail, Thanks for your comments. Yes, I have viewed the tantra lessons. I had two reactions. Firstly, they made me sad realizing in my current relationship I will not be able to experience partner tantric sex. My post essentially addresses the second point which is self tantric practices are very powerful and my initial experiences suggest there can be ecstatic states achieved thru tantra as well as just doing SBP and DM. Having these initial experiences gave me hope that I could be peaceful even within my loveless relationship in my inner experiences. Where I struggle is wondering if I am using AYP as a way of avoiding dealing with the pain of a failing marriage. Is acceptance my journey or am I using fear of leaving a marriage as an excuse for the spiritual growth that I can find in a relationship with a more open individual?
kumar ul islam
United Kingdom
716 Posts
Posted - Oct 08 2019 : 5:31:50 PM
sex is very strong instinct a moving force within all manifestations from the division of a cell to our own procreation activities ,as humans we tend to embellish ornament and attach our own personnel needs and appetites within this very basic action, a very pleasurable almost at times mystical experience ,sex has hidden depths relating to control and the power this creates in the dynamics of our personal relationships ,coupled with cultural hierarchy of male to female domination and expectations we hold with our partners ,the peak experience is easily gained in sex possible for the male more so than the female ,females choose whereas males have no choice, its difficult to renounce this urge this longing and suppression long term creates its own problems ,to be healthy needs need to satiated especially if we feel that this has become an issue revolving around a personnel relationship, to give up all one has to keep satiating sexual desire seems irrational but this is the force that wills us humans on redirecting it would seem the answer and in some ways yoga provides us with a platform for change but like everything else we humans do sacrifice becomes a hardship when the rewards are not easily and immediately attained ,are we built this way to be forever between fullness and being empty and is this what desire really is, the never never and the nearly nearly .thank you for your openness and sharing paul.
interpaul
USA
91 Posts
Posted - Oct 08 2019 : 8:41:40 PM
Kumar ul islam, Thanks you for your insights and the longest sentence of wisdom I have ever read. Your comments are poetic and leave me wanting more of the truth you point towards.
Dogboy
USA
1711 Posts
Posted - Oct 08 2019 : 8:56:15 PM
quote:
Having these initial experiences gave me hope that I could be peaceful even within my loveless relationship in my inner experiences. Where I struggle is wondering if I am using AYP as a way of avoiding dealing with the pain of a failing marriage. Is acceptance my journey or am I using fear of leaving a marriage as an excuse for the spiritual growth that I can find in a relationship with a more open individual?
A great part of my attraction to yoga is that it crosses beams with sex; that it?s essence is fuel, for marriage, for the Divine. I joke with my wife that meditation is my mistress.. We have relations twice a month, and we are in a very comfortable loving space currently, now with her sobriety. Your dilemma has me imagining if she were to say ?no more?, would it change our commitment to each other? I honestly can say it would not for me. She is a terrific friend and mother to my children, and I?m also in love with the man in the mirror, and he is always there for me.
But I am not you, and am not personally suffering from the prospect of ?no longer in sexual union? with my wife. You obviously experience pleasure from practice, definitely pursue further, to explore without shame, without fear, without worry. Yoga is so beautiful in this way!
I would not divorce, but commit to exploring your new surroundings. Allow your practices to open your heart to reconnect to the woman you chose as partner, she may still be that. Is she still open to any physical touch? Acknowledge that this new reality has hurt you, be open that your practice will allow hurt to dissolve.
Look for opportunities for touch, for play, for smiles. Offer her a massage. Compliment her. Vacuum the living room. Expect nothing from her in return.
And if, over time and in the end, this ?love blast? does not change your prospective, or hers, and you decide to split, know that you did so with the integrity that you truly gave it your best shot. Love wins out, even in this outcome.
Edited by - Dogboy on Oct 08 2019 9:09:53 PM
interpaul
USA
91 Posts
Posted - Oct 09 2019 : 11:42:37 AM
Dogboy, Thank you! I feel the place of love from which your post comes. Knowing a little of your history makes your words mean a lot to me. You inspire me to keep trying. I became very discouraged recently when my wife rejected my offer to give her a massage (without any expectation of sex) just for the pleasure and connection. She talks of how she doesn't want to "do anything" and I thought a massage would be a wonderful way to connect without her having to do anything. When I found out she is paying for massages regularly and isn't open to receiving one from me, that made me sad. I understand she thinks massage puts her in a vulnerable position where her guilt about not wanting to have sex is accentuated. Anyway I can't change her feelings but I can continue to go deeper into my practices. Having just tasted a little of the ecstatic conductivity that is building in me with my practices I am hopeful the love you speak of will continue to build internally and give me the strength to find a way back into her heart.
Dogboy
USA
1711 Posts
Posted - Oct 09 2019 : 2:29:23 PM
A loving approach is a good start, as much for yourself as for her. Get regular massages yourself, she may be on to something! Consider booking a couple?s massage your next gifting opportunity, an intimate shared experience that could be a middle ground.
lalow33
USA
966 Posts
Posted - Oct 12 2019 : 12:30:57 PM
Hey, interpaul.
My experience, you can't yoga your way out of or into a relationship that's not working for you. Tried it. Failed.
Take care,
Lori
Edited by - lalow33 on Oct 12 2019 12:55:49 PM
interpaul
USA
91 Posts
Posted - Oct 12 2019 : 6:32:47 PM
Lalow33,
Thanks for sharing your experience. I realize yoga can't change my wife. I do believe it has given me new tools to change myself. Where I struggle is a more fundamental question regarding how important sexual relations are to our general health. Having achieved non ejaculatory orgasms that are truly blissful I have reached a place of deep satisfaction internally without as much need for outside sexual relations. I wonder if I truly let go of any expectations of any further sexual relations with my wife and went deeper into these practices if this would free my wife from guilt she has related to her lack of libido. Would this free her up emotionally to reengage more with me in other spheres of intimacy. Ultimately are we here on this physical plane to have physical relations or is there a time in life where we can let go of attachment to physical pleasure generated thru sexual relations and instead move deeper inward?
Charliedog
1594 Posts
Posted - Oct 13 2019 : 03:03:41 AM
quote:
I realize yoga can't change my wife. I do believe it has given me new tools to change myself.
With the use of yoga tools, we heal and transform ourselves. We are transforming old believes, judgements and conditionings in ourselves. This could be confronting and not always easy.
quote:
I wonder if I truly let go of any expectations of any further sexual relations with my wife and went deeper into these practices if this would free my wife from guilt she has related to her lack of libido.
If we can let go expectations we will loose attachments. This means our relationships are based on unconditional love. Unconditional love has no expectations to receive something back. If we abide in unconditional love, all relationships will change, with ourselves, and with others. We are open and free, a catalyst for the healing vibrations for all of us. We realize who we truly are.
Enjoy practice,
Bhakti, the science of devotionEdited by - Charliedog on Oct 13 2019 03:13:15 AM
BlueRaincoat
United Kingdom
1550 Posts
Posted - Oct 13 2019 : 04:53:49 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Charliedog
Unconditional love has no expectations to receive something back. If we abide in unconditional love, all relationships will change, with ourselves, and with others.
Non-attachment also lets us see clearly. Interpaul, you have been very focused on the lack of sex in your marriage, so you are seeing the issue as "lack of libido" in you wife. There might be something else behind it.
Reading your posts above, I can see you have come a long way.
Having tantric sex with a partner is not essential to progress in yoga. Leaving sexual relations behind does not need to be a renunciation. Indeed, AYP does not recommend renouncing anything. Just steady progress to a state where attachments fall away.
Best wishes