Thich Nhat Hanh

[david_obsidian]

Jim said:
I'm not saying we ought to ignore the dumb junk. But....sheesh.

Jim you aren't saying we should ignore the dumb junk, but,  then sheesh what?  

Since all those things you have just said have been already said by me,  except the 'sheesh',  what do we have to learn here from what you said?  Do we have to learn that Jim disapproves of how this conversation went?

[Jim and His Karma]

quote:
Jim you aren't saying we should ignore the dumb junk, but,  then sheesh what?  

Sheesh in that we ought to also make reference to his vast sea of beautiful inspiring work and not give the appearance of skewering him for one (arguably) dumb line of thought.

quote:
Do we have to learn that Jim disapproves of how this conversation went?

David, I'm flattered by your frequent reference to your perception of me as meting out super important approval/disapproval from some lofty perch. Flattered because I don't consider myself (and I'm betting most forumites don't consider me) to be anything other than some shmuck throwing his opinions into the ring.

You yourself are extraordinarily opinionated and argumentative. So, as I've noted previously, it's unbecoming for you to begrudge others their opinions. Thanks for apparently considering me "special, but can I request that you severely downgrade your perception of my importance?

[david_obsidian]

Jim said:
Sheesh in that we ought to also make reference to his vast sea of beautiful inspiring work and not give the appearance of skewering him for one (arguably) dumb line of thought.

Have you been reading my posts at all? Do you want to count the number of times I have said the same thing?  Did you read that I regretted that Thich Nhat Hanh gets an unfair rap if this post is taken in isolation?  Or are you just coming in at the end and throwing in your disapproval without checking if it is warranted?

Jim said:
Thanks for apparently considering me "special, but can I request that you severely downgrade your perception of my importance?

Jim,  my perception of your importance does not need downgrading,  despite how it may seem to you right now.


Perhaps we all have different virtues.  Am I really 'extraordinarily opinionated and argumentative'?   I'm not so sure.  Maybe I am merely 'strident in opinions and vigorous in debate'.   Or maybe the truth is somewhere between the two.  But even if I have those faults so strongly,  I have other virtues.  For example,   it is not within my style to express disapproval of and disregard for other people's well-meaning posts (although posts in which disapproval is expressed of other people's well-meaning posts are probably an exception -- and I certainly vigorously tackle what people say,  but remaining strictly on the issues).  Nor do I list other forumites faults.  I am very uninclined to do that sort of thing in and of myself.  So whatever my faults may seem to be,   I have virtues too,  which maybe you should learn from.

Regarding coming across as high-and-mighty,  that will probably happen when you, in your style, do express disapproval of and disregard for other people's posts and use words like 'unbecoming'.  This will happen without people having an excessive perception of your importance.

Have a great day,  Jim.    Thanks for waking me up a little this sleepy Monday afternoon.  

[Etherfish]

"Jim, my perception of your importance does not need downgrading"
oh-oh; that could be taken badly. . .



Yes Thich Nhat Hanh has made very important contributions to the world. I remember being totally into his work for months.

This goes along with that other thread about not throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
The more well known you are, the more prominent your mistakes are!
I'm sure glad nobody writes down things I have said in the past. I'd love to
be able contribute to humanity as much as he has.

[david_obsidian]

Ether said:
"Jim, my perception of your importance does not need downgrading"
oh-oh; that could be taken badly. . .

No,  it won't be taken too seriously,  don't worry.    I know Jim a little longer than you do.

[Jim and His Karma]

Why's everybody editing now? Is my neurosis contagious?

Give me 10 mins, I'll edit this one, too....

[Katrine]

Just a reflection....:

What is this "society"?
It is certainly not an entity. Isn't it just a crowd of individuals conditioned in certain ways......some of which go in the same direction? To me - a society is not a living thing. But individuals are.
And what is the definition of "a criminal"?

I don't think TNH has any tolerance for criminal activity. He does, however, display infinite compassion for any human being.
 
I don't know.....but it seems to me that I am a victim of my mind. The conditioned mind. Certainly my parents contributed to both the positive and the negative conditioning. So did any of the authorities (individuals, all of them)I encountered while I grew up.

If you put them together they make up "a society".

People often say: "You have a choice, you know. You can choose not to act that way"
Do you really have a choice when you are not conscious? Who in you is choosing if you are not there?

It is so easy to judge another......
We are so hard on ourselves.

Do "criminals" read TNH?
Do you think they are in any way in need of his compassion?
Has the crimerate increased because of his views on "criminals"?


May all your Nows be Here

[david_obsidian]

So I think many of us agree that this particular thread,   standing alone,  is not really fair to Thich Nhat Hanh.  It started out as another discussion,  and when I chipped in with what bothered me about him,  (after Ether chipped in with something which bothered him about him)  it was not a thread entitled 'Thich Nhat Hanh'.  Well,  the thread went on from there and got named 'Thich Nhat Hanh' by a moderator.

It's a very focussed discussion about one arguably-problemmatic aspect of Thich.  So what now?  Rename the thread?   'Thich Nhat Hanh -- a social constructionist?'  Or just ignore it?

Any advice?  (Please omit advice containing phrases like 'David, in future' -- I already know.)

[Manipura]

My advice is let's all have another beer and talk about Chogyam Trungpa.

[david_obsidian]

Ha Ha Ha!  He was a great man,  flawless and perfect all the way through,  and not a social-constructionist bone in his body!  

[Etherfish]

eeewww- budwater. But if it's free I'm there.

i'm the one guilty of splitting the subject. i felt there was more to say about TNH but
we were talking about something else. I figured he is prominent enough that it would evolve beyond what we were saying, so I just gave it his name. I did put a link to this back where we were.
------------------
Jim, I'm an editaholic too. As soon as I click the "submit reply" I see something I don't like.
Usually a misspelling, but I have to admit to a couple anal things like mis-alignment. Editing is so nice because when I think of "one more thing" I can add it instead of cluttering up
the forum with one-liners.

[Sparkle]

I feel drawn to make comment here. I don't wish to start this topic off again because, as has been said, it does not represent Thich Nhat Hanh and his work.

The posts I would align myself with would be Katrine's post and Jim's first post, and of course the calls for a pint - mine's a Guinness of course

I respectively dis-agree with you David and Ether, and hope we can agree to dis-agree. I do also repect your opinions and will keep an open mind myself about the whole subject.

Yours in tranquility[]
Louis

[david_obsidian]

Louis,  we all said a number of things.  One thing Jim said actually agreed with what I said.  So I don't know what you agree with or disagree with in my Ether's, Jim's or Katrine's post(s).  

Which is maybe fine.  Maybe it doesn't matter.

If you are merely 'rooting for' Jim and Katrine posts,  and against Ether's and mine,  that's fine.  Ether 'n' me will just get you in a dark alley,  when you have had too much Guiness.

[Sparkle]

David, I would’nt dream of “rooting”for one ego over another, no matter how big they are.
I would prefer to think I was rooting for the truth, as I’m sure you are also.

I have replied in more detail by email to you, hope you like it.

From the dark alley[}:)]

[david_obsidian]

>> I have replied in more detail by email to you, hope you like it.

Yes I do like it.  You are proving yourself an opponent worthy of my sword.  And it's a shame it has to be private. As an Irishman might say 'A private fight is such a waste of the public'.

I'm Irish too by the way,  and I also resent these stereotypes.