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Yahoo AYP Forum Archive Threads / Too much pranayama, not enough meditation?

« Last post by AYPforum on July 08, 2005, 03:43:37 AM »

1082 From: "obsidian9999" <obsidian9999@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri Jun 17, 2005 4:31pm
Subject: Too much pranayama, not enough meditation? obsidian9999
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Guys,

here's a snippet of an email from Yogani which I thought is relevant
to your discussion:

>>> Traditional kriya yoga comes up short in the meditation
department. It is their greatest failing, and it really shows in long
time kriya practitioners who have done a lot of spinal breathing with
inadequate deep meditation.

He isn't talking about Iyengar per se, but you can see clearly that
he believes that you generally need meditation in addition to
pranayama. Perhaps this is the reason why you observe these things
in Iyengar practicioners? Perhaps insufficient meditation (mantra
yoga)?

Mantra yoga certainly always got certain juices flowing for me that
pranayama could never release by itself.

-David

--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, victor yj <vic@y...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> "And, fwiw, I'm super against Iyengar's pranayama (and I speak as a
serious Iyengar yoga
> stalwart for decades). I still practice asanas in the Iyengar
style, but I've completely
> migrated to AYP for pranayama. Most hardcore Iyengar practioners
get sort of brittle, hard
> and dry...repressed anger, etc. I'm sure it's the pranayama."
>
> Thats a good question, Jim. I don't really know many Iyengar people
that actually practice pranayama but there does seem to be a very
pervasive brittleness and suppressed anger. It is very apparent.
>
> After practicing Iyengar pranayama for many years I have completely
switched over to AYP with no regrets. The difference to me is very
distinct. For one thing the iyengar style emphasises keping the chest
very lifted and expanded which after many years brought me to a place
of over expansion of teh front body and also an erroneous sensation
of the breath moving in front of the spine. When I closely observe
the spinal breathing and also look at anatomy and where the actual
spinal nerve is located I see that it is actually behind teh
vertebral bodies so it is actually in the back body. When I moved my
awareness of the soinal nerve as well as of the flow of the breath
through that the sensation was of relief and balance immediately. I
am not accusing Iyengar of giving false information but that somehow
I didn't *get* this understanding till I switched to AYP. I also
since practicing kechari no longer seal teh breath in the throat
during kumbhaka but keep the throat soft and open as if
> continuing to inhale. This has greatly releive d pressure in the
torso and belly and lets the energy connect the head to the rest of
teh body. I could go on.......
>
> Lets see. For me doing pranayama with a static jalandhara and
kumbhaka does seem to give a brittleness and rigidity whereas letting
teh head rotate in the chin pump releases that energy and gives it
somewhere to go. Now if we could just organize a school at some point
I wonder if there would be interest from students of yoga ready to go
deeper...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

1083 From: "Melissa" <mm7810@gmail.com>
Date: Fri Jun 17, 2005 10:24pm
Subject: Re: Too much pranayama, not enough meditation? mm78102002
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Hi David -

I find your comments below quite interesting. In reading "The Death
of Death", which is said to be transcribed from Babaji, it says that
during this time period of Kali yuga, mantras are the MOST effective
means of yogic practice. Just thought I would add that little
tidbit fwiw.

Melissa

--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "obsidian9999" <obsidian9999@y...>
wrote:
>
> Guys,
>
> here's a snippet of an email from Yogani which I thought is
relevant
> to your discussion:
>
> >>> Traditional kriya yoga comes up short in the meditation
> department. It is their greatest failing, and it really shows in
long
> time kriya practitioners who have done a lot of spinal breathing
with
> inadequate deep meditation.
>
> He isn't talking about Iyengar per se, but you can see clearly
that
> he believes that you generally need meditation in addition to
> pranayama. Perhaps this is the reason why you observe these
things
> in Iyengar practicioners? Perhaps insufficient meditation (mantra
> yoga)?
>
> Mantra yoga certainly always got certain juices flowing for me
that
> pranayama could never release by itself.
>
> -David
>
]

1084 From: "Dave Moore" <riptiz@hotmail.com>
Date: Sat Jun 18, 2005 2:47am
Subject: Re: Too much pranayama, not enough meditation? riptiz
Offline
Send Email

Hi,
I practise Kundalini Maha Yoga and find that the meditation is simply
enough and all things remain in balance.Simple,effective and no
complications.Of course as in all things guidance is required when
questions arise.Do you not feel the bitterness etc found in Iyengar
yogis/yoginis is simply cleansing or an imbalance caused by the
practices not being complete?
L&L
dave

1085 From: "jim_and_his_karma" <jim_and_his_karma@yahoo.com>
Date: Sat Jun 18, 2005 11:00am
Subject: Re: Too much pranayama, not enough meditation? jim_and_his_...
Offline
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Meditation is the missing link in nearly all schools of "yoga" taught in America. You'd be
hard pressed to find a yoga school founder who DOESN'T from time to time mention that
meditation is crucial. But they don't teach it, they don't push it, they leave it out of the
equation. Why? Because the majority of students who show up at yoga class do so for a
physical workout (not that they're "unspiritual" about it necessarily...doing asana does
bring a host of deeper results) and you just can't charge people $15 or $20 and have them
sit still and silent for half the class or more. So the best teachers can do is weakly, meakly
say "um, guys...meditation's really good" as they put on their shoes and leave. (And this is
one reason why AYP is such a dynamite "next step" for asana practitioners.)

And it's not just Iyengar. Nearly all American yoga students are geared up on asana and
underbaked in meditation. Pranayama's another thing...that's something yoga teachers do
tend to insist on (though many students resist). I don't think Iyengar emphasizes
pranayama much more than other systems.But no other style of yoga creates the
hardened, angry, vibe of Iyengar yoga. So it may be that the Iyengar approach to asana
(with keen precision and alignment, and figured out be a guy all parties consider a genius
for his deep understanding of body and energy) is simply more effective than the others at
unblocking the nadis, resulting in students who are particularly well dressed...with
nowhere to go, energetically.

--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "obsidian9999" <obsidian9999@y...> wrote:
>
> Guys,
>
> here's a snippet of an email from Yogani which I thought is relevant
> to your discussion:
>
> >>> Traditional kriya yoga comes up short in the meditation
> department. It is their greatest failing, and it really shows in long
> time kriya practitioners who have done a lot of spinal breathing with
> inadequate deep meditation.
>
> He isn't talking about Iyengar per se, but you can see clearly that
> he believes that you generally need meditation in addition to
> pranayama. Perhaps this is the reason why you observe these things
> in Iyengar practicioners? Perhaps insufficient meditation (mantra
> yoga)?
>
> Mantra yoga certainly always got certain juices flowing for me that
> pranayama could never release by itself.
>
> -David
>
>
> --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, victor yj <vic@y...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "And, fwiw, I'm super against Iyengar's pranayama (and I speak as a
> serious Iyengar yoga
> > stalwart for decades). I still practice asanas in the Iyengar
> style, but I've completely
> > migrated to AYP for pranayama. Most hardcore Iyengar practioners
> get sort of brittle, hard
> > and dry...repressed anger, etc. I'm sure it's the pranayama."
> >
> > Thats a good question, Jim. I don't really know many Iyengar people
> that actually practice pranayama but there does seem to be a very
> pervasive brittleness and suppressed anger. It is very apparent.
> >
> > After practicing Iyengar pranayama for many years I have completely
> switched over to AYP with no regrets. The difference to me is very
> distinct. For one thing the iyengar style emphasises keping the chest
> very lifted and expanded which after many years brought me to a place
> of over expansion of teh front body and also an erroneous sensation
> of the breath moving in front of the spine. When I closely observe
> the spinal breathing and also look at anatomy and where the actual
> spinal nerve is located I see that it is actually behind teh
> vertebral bodies so it is actually in the back body. When I moved my
> awareness of the soinal nerve as well as of the flow of the breath
> through that the sensation was of relief and balance immediately. I
> am not accusing Iyengar of giving false information but that somehow
> I didn't *get* this understanding till I switched to AYP. I also
> since practicing kechari no longer seal teh breath in the throat
> during kumbhaka but keep the throat soft and open as if
> > continuing to inhale. This has greatly releive d pressure in the
> torso and belly and lets the energy connect the head to the rest of
> teh body. I could go on.......
> >
> > Lets see. For me doing pranayama with a static jalandhara and
> kumbhaka does seem to give a brittleness and rigidity whereas letting
> teh head rotate in the chin pump releases that energy and gives it
> somewhere to go. Now if we could just organize a school at some point
> I wonder if there would be interest from students of yoga ready to go
> deeper...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

1089 From: "Dave Moore" <riptiz@hotmail.com>
Date: Sun Jun 19, 2005 3:35pm
Subject: Re: Too much pranayama, not enough meditation? riptiz
Offline
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Hi Jim,
In actual fact asanas as well as chi gung in my experience will give
you more dramatic results in the beginning but as you become in a more
pure state eveyone needs meditation to walk the final step.Without
meditation you will never reach enlightenment as it takes you further
than any other practice.I know what you mean about teaching meditation
as I primarily teach meditation but as you say they always want 'more'
or a 'quick fix'which is the way of ones ego isn't it? Even though I
teach the Kundalini Maha Yoga meditations which are more powerful than
most other ways,people still look for more dramatic results and think
that they need visions, voices, colours or whatever as a benchmark to
their progress which as we all know is no indicator at all.
L&L
dave

1092 From: Ram Narayan Gupta <rngupta31@yahoo.co.in>
Date: Sun Jun 19, 2005 9:07pm
Subject: Re: Re: Too much pranayama, not enough meditation? rngupta31
Send IM
Send Email

Dear Shri Dave Moore Ji
In your mail, you memtioned that u r teaching the Kundalini Maha Yoga meditations which are more powerful than most other ways.
Would you kindly elaborate the procedure for learning the Kundalini Maha Yoga meditations is it similiar to AYP or some one else.
With regards,
R N Gupta
Dave Moore <riptiz@hotmail.com> wrote:
Hi Jim,
In actual fact asanas as well as chi gung in my experience will give
you more dramatic results in the beginning but as you become in a more
pure state eveyone needs meditation to walk the final step.Without
meditation you will never reach enlightenment as it takes you further
than any other practice.I know what you mean about teaching meditation
as I primarily teach meditation but as you say they always want 'more'
or a 'quick fix'which is the way of ones ego isn't it? Even though I
teach the Kundalini Maha Yoga meditations which are more powerful than
most other ways,people still look for more dramatic results and think
that they need visions, voices, colours or whatever as a benchmark to
their progress which as we all know is no indicator at all.
L&L
dave

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1090 From: "Melissa" <mm7810@gmail.com>
Date: Sun Jun 19, 2005 4:02pm
Subject: Re: Too much pranayama, not enough meditation? mm78102002
Offline
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Hello everybody -

I wanted more information on the "why" of meditation after
pranyama so I emailed Yogani and asked him to elaborate. Below
is his response [I am assuming that he wouldn't mind me posting
it - lol], and I thought others may be interested in reading it
as well.

Toodles,

Melissa

==================================================================

removing rigidness from yoga

Thank you for writing and sharing.

Opening nadis long term without cultivation of inner silence
(meditation) can lead to stray thoughts and emotions taking root
deeper in the nervous system (like weeds), which is where the
rigidness and irritability come from. It can happen with both asanas
and pranayama if taken to exclusive excess. There is mounting
evidence of this, with a few examples popping up the AYP forum.

Interestingly, deep meditation done alone over a long time, while
generally much more stable as a stand-alone than asanas or
pranayama, can also lead to some imbalance. In that case, it can be
inner silence lacking a connection to the inner energies and daily
living. Generally not much irritability and rigidness from this
(though it can happen) -- but occasionally more of a spaced-out
feeling. That is why we do our practice and go out and be active in
the world to stabilize inner silence in our life. That will usually
be enough to promote spiritual growth and keep balance between our
meditation and daily life. Then we add the pranayama, asanas,
mudras, bandhas and tantra to accelerate the effusion of inner
silence throughout our nervous system, and beyond. That adds the
ecstatic conductivity/radiance (kundalini) aspect, which is
essential to move on to unity, which is a joining of inner silence
and ecstasy leading to outpouring of divine love everywhere. That is
when our surroundings become as dear to us as our body and
individuality. Then "Do unto others..." becomes a living reality.
Obviously, being active in the world is essential in this advanced
stage also.

On yoga systems, AYP is a balanced blend of kriya methods (spinal
breathing, and hatha elements), mantra yoga (deep meditation and
samyama), kundalini yoga (kumbhaka, mudras and bandhas), and tantra
(expanding sexual functioning upward). There is overlap between all
of these, but those are the basic system elements involved in AYP.
The conduct aspects (yamas and niyamas) flow out from those. I'd
prefer not to break down the pieces more specifically than that. In
AYP we are trying to put Humpty Dumpty back together, not take him
apart again.

The key to progress in yoga is balance between all the different
methods which work well together. With an open system of practices
it is not that hard to do because the nervous system knows what it
needs (see lesson #149). We just add the appropriate pieces when we
are ready, a la AYP. Where things have tended to go wrong is with
rigid teachings that deny natural inclinations in the practitioners.
Instead of blocking natural inclinations, the additional methods
should be given. But the tradtions don't have all the methods, and
there-in lies the rub.

Any method done alone over a long time will lead to a distortion --
this is the tendency in most traditions. Yoga means union, and that
goes for integrating a full range practices as well. We can see some
benefit in doing any single yoga practice. By drilling down into a
single practice (the "magic bullet") we will eventually run into
problems. Instead, what we should do is spread out across a full
range of practices and then drill down with all of them together in
a unified way. This is how a progressive and balanced transformation
can be managed. I don't know of any tradition that takes such a
flexible practitioner-directed approach. It is prohibited
by virtue of the exclusiveness that exists. As you know, AYP is open
and non-exclusive, and that is what a scientific approach can bring
to yoga. The benefits have been pretty obvious to many by now.

I wish you all success on your chosen spiritual path. Enjoy!

The guru is in you.

Yogani

1091 From: "jim_and_his_karma" <jim_and_his_karma@yahoo.com>
Date: Sun Jun 19, 2005 6:49pm
Subject: Re: Too much pranayama, not enough meditation? jim_and_his_...
Offline
Send Email

Good stuff. Makes sense to me. When I discovered AYP and started a rigorous meditation
regimen (after a few years of VERY avid asana practice), I felt like a scurvy patient gulping
fresh orange juice. It was more than helpful...it felt like I was rectifying a serious
deficiency.

Based on what Yogani says, plus my other thoughts, I guess the reason for the problem of
Iyengar yoga, specifically, is: 1. Iyengar yoga is particularly efficacious at opening the
nadis, because Mr. Iyengar has a genius for understanding them and communicating ways
to effectively open them, 2. Mr. Iyengar insists on "capping" the energy (i.e. many built in
mechanisms to prevent kundalini awakening) so the nadis are "all dressed up with
nowhere to go", and 3. the lack of meditation to balance this all out, with results that
Yogani eloquently explained.

And the upshot is, I guess, that Iyengar yoga and AYP make a heckuva combination,
better together than either separately. One's great for opening nadis, and the other's great
for putting them to use!

--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "Melissa" <mm7810@g...> wrote:
> Hello everybody -
>
> I wanted more information on the "why" of meditation after
> pranyama so I emailed Yogani and asked him to elaborate. Below
> is his response [I am assuming that he wouldn't mind me posting
> it - lol], and I thought others may be interested in reading it
> as well.
>
> Toodles,
>
> Melissa
>
>
=======================================================
===========
>
> removing rigidness from yoga
>
> Thank you for writing and sharing.
>
> Opening nadis long term without cultivation of inner silence
> (meditation) can lead to stray thoughts and emotions taking root
> deeper in the nervous system (like weeds), which is where the
> rigidness and irritability come from. It can happen with both asanas
> and pranayama if taken to exclusive excess. There is mounting
> evidence of this, with a few examples popping up the AYP forum.
>
> Interestingly, deep meditation done alone over a long time, while
> generally much more stable as a stand-alone than asanas or
> pranayama, can also lead to some imbalance. In that case, it can be
> inner silence lacking a connection to the inner energies and daily
> living. Generally not much irritability and rigidness from this
> (though it can happen) -- but occasionally more of a spaced-out
> feeling. That is why we do our practice and go out and be active in
> the world to stabilize inner silence in our life. That will usually
> be enough to promote spiritual growth and keep balance between our
> meditation and daily life. Then we add the pranayama, asanas,
> mudras, bandhas and tantra to accelerate the effusion of inner
> silence throughout our nervous system, and beyond. That adds the
> ecstatic conductivity/radiance (kundalini) aspect, which is
> essential to move on to unity, which is a joining of inner silence
> and ecstasy leading to outpouring of divine love everywhere. That is
> when our surroundings become as dear to us as our body and
> individuality. Then "Do unto others..." becomes a living reality.
> Obviously, being active in the world is essential in this advanced
> stage also.
>
> On yoga systems, AYP is a balanced blend of kriya methods (spinal
> breathing, and hatha elements), mantra yoga (deep meditation and
> samyama), kundalini yoga (kumbhaka, mudras and bandhas), and tantra
> (expanding sexual functioning upward). There is overlap between all
> of these, but those are the basic system elements involved in AYP.
> The conduct aspects (yamas and niyamas) flow out from those. I'd
> prefer not to break down the pieces more specifically than that. In
> AYP we are trying to put Humpty Dumpty back together, not take him
> apart again.
>
> The key to progress in yoga is balance between all the different
> methods which work well together. With an open system of practices
> it is not that hard to do because the nervous system knows what it
> needs (see lesson #149). We just add the appropriate pieces when we
> are ready, a la AYP. Where things have tended to go wrong is with
> rigid teachings that deny natural inclinations in the practitioners.
> Instead of blocking natural inclinations, the additional methods
> should be given. But the tradtions don't have all the methods, and
> there-in lies the rub.
>
> Any method done alone over a long time will lead to a distortion --
> this is the tendency in most traditions. Yoga means union, and that
> goes for integrating a full range practices as well. We can see some
> benefit in doing any single yoga practice. By drilling down into a
> single practice (the "magic bullet") we will eventually run into
> problems. Instead, what we should do is spread out across a full
> range of practices and then drill down with all of them together in
> a unified way. This is how a progressive and balanced transformation
> can be managed. I don't know of any tradition that takes such a
> flexible practitioner-directed approach. It is prohibited
> by virtue of the exclusiveness that exists. As you know, AYP is open
> and non-exclusive, and that is what a scientific approach can bring
> to yoga. The benefits have been pretty obvious to many by now.
>
> I wish you all success on your chosen spiritual path. Enjoy!
>
> The guru is in you.
>
> Yogani

1094 From: victor yj <vic@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon Jun 20, 2005 6:21pm
Subject: Re: Re: Too much pranayama, not enough meditation? vic
Offline
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I strongly agree. I remember once asking Ramanad Patel why there was no meditation offered at the Iyengar Institute and he said that Mr Iyengar felt that the students were not ready for it and did not want it taught. When I pressed a bit and said that surely there were students with many years of practice under their belt which *were* ready, Ramamanand replied "yes, but they must find it elsewhere" When i asked for suggestions i did not get any other that he didn't recommend the Zen center very much because he felt that they did not seem very happy to him. I wonder how Ramandand feels or would feel about AYP. I haven't spoken with him for some years so am not really in a position to personally ask at this time.

"Iyengar yoga, specifically, is: 1. Iyengar yoga is particularly efficacious at opening the
nadis, because Mr. Iyengar has a genius for understanding them and communicating ways
to effectively open them, 2. Mr. Iyengar insists on "capping" the energy (i.e. many built in
mechanisms to prevent kundalini awakening) so the nadis are "all dressed up with
nowhere to go", and 3. the lack of meditation to balance this all out, with results that
Yogani eloquently explained.

And the upshot is, I guess, that Iyengar yoga and AYP make a heckuva combination,
better together than either separately. One's great for opening nadis, and the other's great
for putting them to use!"

Yahoo AYP Forum Archive Threads / Spinal breathing question

« Last post by AYPforum on July 08, 2005, 03:40:34 AM »

1054 From: "Paula Youmans" <paula@webboise.com>
Date: Wed Jun 15, 2005 10:01am
Subject: Spinal breathing question paula_youmans
Send IM
Send Email

Hi everyone :-)

I have a quick question that I hope someone can answer for me. I
have added spinal breathing to my daily practices, and I always seem to
start breathing in and out through my forehead. I'm not sure if this is ok,
or if I am concentrating too hard on bringing "it" to the brow or what. I
will redirect myself to not do that, and by the third breath I'm breathing
out my forehead again.

Is this ok, or should I be redirecting my breath somewhere else?
I'm still looking for an answer to this in the lessons, but thought I'd ask
the more experienced members in the off chance that I'm doing something that
needs to stop now (I have a knack for tripping into dangerous territories).
The last thing I need is a week of instilling a bad habit LOL.

Kindest regards,

Paula

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

1057 From: "Richard" <richardchamberlin14@hotmail.com>
Date: Wed Jun 15, 2005 2:34pm
Subject: Re: Spinal breathing question azaz932001
Offline
Send Email

--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "Paula Youmans" <paula@w...> wrote:
> Hi everyone :-)
>
>
>
> I have a quick question that I hope someone can answer
for me. I
> have added spinal breathing to my daily practices, and I always
seem to
> start breathing in and out through my forehead. I'm not sure if
this is ok,
> or if I am concentrating too hard on bringing "it" to the brow or
what. I
> will redirect myself to not do that, and by the third breath I'm
breathing
> out my forehead again.
>
Hi Paula

Try adding Mulabandha, start with the sensation that produces, and
just trace the spinal nerve up to the third eye and then back down
again don't think to much about where the breath is just trace the
nerve and the breath will take care of itself. well that worked for
me anyhow.

Blessings R.C.

1058 From: "quickstudy05" <quickstudy05@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed Jun 15, 2005 5:45pm
Subject: Re: Spinal breathing question quickstudy05
Offline
Send Email

Hi Paula:

See lesson 92 at http://www.aypsite.com/plus/92.html

About 3/4 of the way down, you will find this:

"So, if you are seeing the star or having ecstasy reaching out beyond
the point between the eyebrows, go there as part of your normal
spinal breathing. It will add a lot to your practice. If you see the
star or have ecstasy extending out beyond the point between the
eyebrows during yoni mudra kumbhaka, just be there easily during
kumbhaka as the instructions say. Don't try and hang on to it. A
natural purification and connection is occuring. Just let it happen.
Keep in mind that we are working to purify our nervous system here on
earth. That is what we are doing in meditation, spinal breathing,
kumbhaka, bandhas, mudras, and all the rest. Enjoy the bliss of
heaven when it kisses you. Bring it back into your body naturally in
practices. Remember, the work we are doing is here in this earth
form. What we accomplish here we will take with us wherever we go
when we leave. This nervous system is the gateway. If we attend to
that, everything else will take care of itself."

Suggestion: Whether you are going out beyond the brow or not, make
sure you go all the way back down to the root with each cycle of
spinal breathing.

Best of luck!

--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "Paula Youmans" <paula@w...> wrote:
> Hi everyone :-)
>
>
>
> I have a quick question that I hope someone can answer
for me. I
> have added spinal breathing to my daily practices, and I always
seem to
> start breathing in and out through my forehead. I'm not sure if
this is ok,
> or if I am concentrating too hard on bringing "it" to the brow or
what. I
> will redirect myself to not do that, and by the third breath I'm
breathing
> out my forehead again.
>
> Is this ok, or should I be redirecting my breath
somewhere else?
> I'm still looking for an answer to this in the lessons, but thought
I'd ask
> the more experienced members in the off chance that I'm doing
something that
> needs to stop now (I have a knack for tripping into dangerous
territories).
> The last thing I need is a week of instilling a bad habit LOL.
>
>
>
> Kindest regards,
>
> Paula
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

1059 From: "RobGee" <robg33@catskill.net>
Date: Wed Jun 15, 2005 6:58pm
Subject: Re: Re: Spinal breathing question ginoverdi9
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The breath does take care of itself. In the beginning i had a bit of trouble
with the breathing in meditation, as i was inhaling on the I and exhaling on
the AM, due to many years of meditation using the breath. With some answers
from David and J&K i verbalized the I AM for a few breaths, and lo and
behold the breath does take care of itself whether in spinal breathing or
the meditation portion, as Richard states below.
Rob

and the breath will take care of itself. well that worked for
> me anyhow.
>
> Blessings R.C.

1060 From: "Paula Youmans" <paula@webboise.com>
Date: Wed Jun 15, 2005 10:48pm
Subject: Re: Spinal breathing question paula_youmans
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You are right, and I shouldn't be analyzing it so much in retrospect.

I tend to inhale on I am and again exhale on I am. Now with the spinal
breathing

I tend to want that to be in rhythm with everything else...like a little
symphony. At first I thought I was being overly analytical in

Needing rhythm.but who could sit there if it was all out of time? And I
think that timing is probably a very personal

Taste.like music.

I will try that verbalization that you mentioned.

Even when I do it now, omitting the I am during inhale feels nice and gives
a moment of silence.

Slows me down a bit, which is pleasant.

One thing is for sure, I need to stop nit picking myself LOL

Thanks for your reply :-)

Paula

The breath does take care of itself. In the beginning i had a bit of trouble
with the breathing in meditation, as i was inhaling on the I and exhaling on
the AM, due to many years of meditation using the breath. With some answers
from David and J&K i verbalized the I AM for a few breaths, and lo and
behold the breath does take care of itself whether in spinal breathing or
the meditation portion, as Richard states below.
Rob

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

1061 From: "Paula Youmans" <paula@webboise.com>
Date: Wed Jun 15, 2005 10:38pm
Subject: RE: Re: Spinal breathing question paula_youmans
Send IM
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Thank you for your help R.C. and Quickstudy

I had to look up what Mulabandha was and I was going through it as I was
reading about it in the AYP. Wow, and I thought I was a hermit before LOL.

First it stayed in the tantien region (I think that's what it's called
anyway) but I couldn't stand it and felt like.excuse me for being candid
here, that I had to take it to completion, and to me that means rolling it
up. So I proceeded to roll it up into my chest, which is just a fantastic
feeling.

I started getting these shivers down my spine and I actually realized that I
forgot I even had a back.

Right when I was realizing that I was maybe getting a little carried away, I
read the warning to bring it back down to the root each time. At first it
felt like just stopping in the middle of sex.but I knew I should before I
went too gusto. I'm not sure why, but my inclination is to always go up up
up and I need to get comfortable with bringing it down. That desire for
spiritual climax sweeps me and I tend to run off with it, so I will be very
diligent in bringing it down to the root each time.

All of this has opened my eyes to quite a bit.thank you so much :-)

I really wasn't expecting to feel it so immediately.

~Paula

Yahoo AYP Forum Archive Threads / Cautionary Tale: Don't Stop Practicing!

« Last post by AYPforum on July 08, 2005, 03:39:46 AM »

1052 From: "jim_and_his_karma" <jim_and_his_karma@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue Jun 14, 2005 11:19pm
Subject: Cautionary Tale: Don't Stop Practicing! jim_and_his_...
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I stopped practice for a little less than a month. I'm not happy about it, not proud of it, but
I'll try to steer my error into something positive by reporting back to you guys, so you
know what to expect. There were (dumb) reasons for the cessation of practice, but I'm not
going to explain, because I don't want to fuel anyone's regressive impulses!

I'm a professional backtracker. I have trouble "going the distance". I have bookmarks in
about 45 books, you get the idea. So I have a lot of experience with restarting stuff in all
realms. I'd noticed in my hatha yoga practice that intense asana practice suddenly stopped
is worse than never having done asana practice at all. The body REALLY does not like on-
again-off-again hatha yoga practice, though it's very easy to relaunch....bumpy
for a couple of days, but there's a glowy "welcome home" feeling.

Suspended AYP is more extreme. After a couple of lapsed weeks, I felt as if all the crap I'd
cleared out came back all at once, dumping downward on me with a big cosmic WOOMF.
Really REALLY unpleasant, and quite unexpected. And relaunching has been surprisingly
difficult.

I've just finished a full week of resumed practice, and there's been a good measure of
glowy "welcome home" feeling, but even after a diligent week, I'm nowhere close to where
I was. My sambhavi has gone dead (it's disorienting; I feel like a bug that's lost a leg),
spinal breathing feels more metaphorical than a tangible movement of energy. My heart's
closed back up, and I'm only having twinges of reopening (and a resumption of the
palpitations that accompanied the opening last time). I feel like all the machinery between
mid-neck and third eye is opaque and inert. My formerly awakened kundalini is now good
for, at most, a few impotent after-tremors.

I'm not letting myself get upset about this. i'm enjoying the ride, and deflecting
expectations of how things "should" be, insofar as I'm able. After all, my goal in the first
place wasn't a third eye with a 1000 mile range, gushy huge heart, and vivid spinal
breathing.....it was simply to DO THE PRACTICE, and enjoy whatever comes...or doesn't
come. Same now! So I'm just moving ahead diligently.

But....man. Trust me guys....don't stop this practice. In my long and rich experience of
backtracking and restarting stuff, I've never seen anything that lapses this hugely. Dip into
this well twice a day, because it dries up awfully fast!

1056 From: "Richard" <richardchamberlin14@hotmail.com>
Date: Wed Jun 15, 2005 2:23pm
Subject: Re: Cautionary Tale: Don't Stop Practicing! azaz932001
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--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "jim_and_his_karma"
<jim_and_his_karma@y...> wrote:
> I stopped practice for a little less than a month.

Thanks Jim that's made me even more determined not to miss a session

blessings R.C.

1063 From: "lilia_petkova" <lilia_petkova@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu Jun 16, 2005 7:56am
Subject: Re: Cautionary Tale: Don't Stop Practicing! lilia_petkova
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Dear Jim,

What you are saying is interesting - could you also add for how long
did you maintain a continuous practice before you took this month or
so off? Are you feeling better now that several more days have
passed - got rid of the big cosmic WOOMF :-)? I don't have any
excuses for skipping practice now and have been at it for about 8
mths without a gap but I fear this might change at some point who
knows.

Thanks for sharing this with us,
Lili

--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "jim_and_his_karma"
<jim_and_his_karma@y...> wrote:

> Suspended AYP is more extreme. After a couple of lapsed weeks, I
felt as if all the crap I'd
> cleared out came back all at once, dumping downward on me with a
big cosmic WOOMF.
> Really REALLY unpleasant, and quite unexpected. And relaunching
has been surprisingly
> difficult.
>

1070 From: victor yj <vic@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu Jun 16, 2005 5:21pm
Subject: Re: Re: Cautionary Tale: Don't Stop Practicing! vic
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This experience reminds me of all the admonitions by Iyengar teachers never to skip a day of pranayama, that its ok with asana but that pranayama REQUIRES daily continous practice. While I do admit to missing one day here and there over the years with no ill effects I never took the risk of skipping two in a row. I guess it was deeply burned into me and after years of practice would feel unthinkable at this point. One thiing about practicing twice daily however is that progress feels accelerated and if I have trouble doing both sessions any given day I don't feel bad for skipping one.

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1077 From: "jim_and_his_karma" <jim_and_his_karma@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri Jun 17, 2005 3:12am
Subject: Re: Cautionary Tale: Don't Stop Practicing! jim_and_his_...
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I have a friend who's a professional violinist, who typically practices many hours per day.
On days when he absolutely doesn't have time to practice, he at least opens his case, takes
out the instrument, and "gets in touch" by playing even just a single note (with great
immersive concentration). That, to her, is vastly different from "skipping a day."

So...no need to "skip". Get in touch. Stick your toe in the pool! I think this is really really
important. Beyond just the benefit of a quick bath in a deeper realm, you keep your "habit"
sharp (Yogani's right; if you do two sessions a day religiously, you start to crave it).

And, fwiw, I'm super against Iyengar's pranayama (and I speak as a serious Iyengar yoga
stalwart for decades). I still practice asanas in the Iyengar style, but I've completely
migrated to AYP for pranayama. Most hardcore Iyengar practioners get sort of brittle, hard
and dry...repressed anger, etc. I'm sure it's the pranayama.

--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, victor yj <vic@y...> wrote:
>
>
> This experience reminds me of all the admonitions by Iyengar teachers never to skip a
day of pranayama, that its ok with asana but that pranayama REQUIRES daily continous
practice. While I do admit to missing one day here and there over the years with no ill
effects I never took the risk of skipping two in a row. I guess it was deeply burned into me
and after years of practice would feel unthinkable at this point. One thiing about practicing
twice daily however is that progress feels accelerated and if I have trouble doing both
sessions any given day I don't feel bad for skipping one.
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

1078 From: victor yj <vic@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri Jun 17, 2005 3:31am
Subject: Re: Re: Cautionary Tale: Don't Stop Practicing! vic
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"And, fwiw, I'm super against Iyengar's pranayama (and I speak as a serious Iyengar yoga
stalwart for decades). I still practice asanas in the Iyengar style, but I've completely
migrated to AYP for pranayama. Most hardcore Iyengar practioners get sort of brittle, hard
and dry...repressed anger, etc. I'm sure it's the pranayama."

Thats a good question, Jim. I don't really know many Iyengar people that actually practice pranayama but there does seem to be a very pervasive brittleness and suppressed anger. It is very apparent.

After practicing Iyengar pranayama for many years I have completely switched over to AYP with no regrets. The difference to me is very distinct. For one thing the iyengar style emphasises keping the chest very lifted and expanded which after many years brought me to a place of over expansion of teh front body and also an erroneous sensation of the breath moving in front of the spine. When I closely observe the spinal breathing and also look at anatomy and where the actual spinal nerve is located I see that it is actually behind teh vertebral bodies so it is actually in the back body. When I moved my awareness of the soinal nerve as well as of the flow of the breath through that the sensation was of relief and balance immediately. I am not accusing Iyengar of giving false information but that somehow I didn't *get* this understanding till I switched to AYP. I also since practicing kechari no longer seal teh breath in the throat during kumbhaka but keep the throat soft and open as if
continuing to inhale. This has greatly releive d pressure in the torso and belly and lets the energy connect the head to the rest of teh body. I could go on.......

Lets see. For me doing pranayama with a static jalandhara and kumbhaka does seem to give a brittleness and rigidity whereas letting teh head rotate in the chin pump releases that energy and gives it somewhere to go. Now if we could just organize a school at some point I wonder if there would be interest from students of yoga ready to go deeper...

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1080 From: "jim_and_his_karma" <jim_and_his_karma@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri Jun 17, 2005 11:29am
Subject: Re: Cautionary Tale: Don't Stop Practicing! jim_and_his_...
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Victor said:
--------
Thats a good question, Jim. I don't really know many Iyengar people that
actually practice pranayama but there does seem to be a very pervasive
brittleness and suppressed anger. It is very apparent.
--------

Well, my theory was that because Iyengar pranayama essentially has one hand slapping
the other - pranayama is about rousing energies, yet Iyengar also caps the energy, e.g. by
suppressing kechari mudra (all pranayama done with tongue DOWN) and doing everything
in jalandhara and limiting mulha bandha - I figured that was the cause. A lack of "juice" in
terms of higher energy. But if you're seeing "Iyengar syndrome" in practitioners who don't
do pranayama, then what do you supppose is causing the problem? The striving attitude
and long hold times? What is it about the practice that causes this?

I try not to overvisualize the spine (per Iyengar style) in pranayama; Yogani discourages
this (wait, I must be careful for readers along: pranayama in AYP is ALL ABOUT close
visualization of spine, but I'm talking about about an Iyengar style visualization which
plots the physical spine and its location very keenly in space). The up motion and the
down motion are, I understand, happening in different channels, and I trust YOgani that
AYP practice has it going in the proper way. I think too much anatomical probing might be
counterproductive, though it's definitely my tendency, too, after all this Iyengar work. The
way I avoid it is to work with my energetic spine rather than physical in pranayama, and to
think wider/bigger rather than finer and finer. If I could have the energy moving up and
down a 6 inch column, pretty much filling my body, that'd be just fine. I'm trying NOT to
bear down to the minutae. Just fwiw.

As for the over expansion in the front body, me too; that's what I was talking about in my
other posting. You're dropping your back ribs, as I've been doing. This makes your torso
lean back, which makes your stomach jut out. To fix, do tadasana (or a seated pose) and
sweep your back ribs VERY firmly up (it's a tough move), and let the shoulders ride up with
them, using the solar plexus as the point of pivot for the action. Then (and only then) drop
the shoulders. The effect will be a uddiyana bandha, but a peculiar one. The more
sophisticated way of thinking of it is that you're rotating your entire ribcage clockwise (to
the perspective of someone standing to your right. Again, focus on solar plexus during
this move. Not only will it fix your stomach issue, but it opens up a lot of abdominal
energy and may revolutionize your AYP.

Yes, one side effect of Iyengar discouraging any form of kechari is a closure of (what
Taoists call) the front channel, with exactly the effect you mention. He's imposed several
mechanisms to prevent kundalini awakening (read Light on YOga to see how he feels
about the dangers), but the problem is 1. he prevents this awakening not just for
beginners but for all, and 2. if you're scrubbing your nadis and practicing pranayama, it's a
little like being a celibate nun not being permitted Jesus in her heart. All dressed up and
no place to go......

Yeah, I think a bunch of hatha yoga students would flock to AYP, for sure. It's a great
companion to Iyengar yoga, especially.

1081 From: victor yj <vic@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri Jun 17, 2005 2:40pm
Subject: Re: Re: Cautionary Tale: Don't Stop Practicing! vic
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-Jim,
I like your visualization of the ribs and shoulders
very mch and it is along the lines of what I am
exploring at this time as well.
I am not ready yet to give up the physical attention
to detail ala Iyengar style yet until the transition
to energetic visualization comes naturally. The
transition is coming however as my sense of moving the
energy in the spinal channel is more like an energetic
current than a pysical sensation. that is overlayed
however on the phusical and that is more a refinement
of the siddhasana posture and the movement of the ribs
and spine. Neither is incorrect but my feeling i sthat
as the practice deepens in the same posture that the
physical sensations become more subtle and that the
energetic increases.
As for the "Iyengar syndrome", I don't know. I don't
seem to have it in me and that is one reason why I
drifted away after many years. It was as if they had
done all of the prerequisites and were very strong and
vital but seemed to lack the "spiritual vibration"
that I was hoping to find in yoga. You may have nailed
it on the head with "all dressed up with nowhere to
go". I don't know if the Pranayama is at fault but
maybe it is the intense striving without emphasis on
meditative practice but rather a more and more focus
on physical subtlety. Hard to say. but defnitely
observable.

-- jim_and_his_karma <jim_and_his_karma@yahoo.com>
wrote:

> Victor said:
> --------
> Thats a good question, Jim. I don't really know
> many Iyengar people that
> actually practice pranayama but there does seem to
> be a very pervasive
> brittleness and suppressed anger. It is very
> apparent.
> --------
>
>
> Well, my theory was that because Iyengar pranayama
> essentially has one hand slapping
> the other - pranayama is about rousing energies, yet
> Iyengar also caps the energy, e.g. by
> suppressing kechari mudra (all pranayama done with
> tongue DOWN) and doing everything
> in jalandhara and limiting mulha bandha - I figured
> that was the cause. A lack of "juice" in
> terms of higher energy. But if you're seeing
> "Iyengar syndrome" in practitioners who don't
> do pranayama, then what do you supppose is causing
> the problem? The striving attitude
> and long hold times? What is it about the practice
> that causes this?
>
> I try not to overvisualize the spine (per Iyengar
> style) in pranayama; Yogani discourages
> this (wait, I must be careful for readers along:
> pranayama in AYP is ALL ABOUT close
> visualization of spine, but I'm talking about about
> an Iyengar style visualization which
> plots the physical spine and its location very
> keenly in space). The up motion and the
> down motion are, I understand, happening in
> different channels, and I trust YOgani that
> AYP practice has it going in the proper way. I think
> too much anatomical probing might be
> counterproductive, though it's definitely my
> tendency, too, after all this Iyengar work. The
> way I avoid it is to work with my energetic spine
> rather than physical in pranayama, and to
> think wider/bigger rather than finer and finer. If I
> could have the energy moving up and
> down a 6 inch column, pretty much filling my body,
> that'd be just fine. I'm trying NOT to
> bear down to the minutae. Just fwiw.
>
> As for the over expansion in the front body, me too;
> that's what I was talking about in my
> other posting. You're dropping your back ribs, as
> I've been doing. This makes your torso
> lean back, which makes your stomach jut out. To fix,
> do tadasana (or a seated pose) and
> sweep your back ribs VERY firmly up (it's a tough
> move), and let the shoulders ride up with
> them, using the solar plexus as the point of pivot
> for the action. Then (and only then) drop
> the shoulders. The effect will be a uddiyana bandha,
> but a peculiar one. The more
> sophisticated way of thinking of it is that you're
> rotating your entire ribcage clockwise (to
> the perspective of someone standing to your right.
> Again, focus on solar plexus during
> this move. Not only will it fix your stomach issue,
> but it opens up a lot of abdominal
> energy and may revolutionize your AYP.
>
> Yes, one side effect of Iyengar discouraging any
> form of kechari is a closure of (what
> Taoists call) the front channel, with exactly the
> effect you mention. He's imposed several
> mechanisms to prevent kundalini awakening (read
> Light on YOga to see how he feels
> about the dangers), but the problem is 1. he
> prevents this awakening not just for
> beginners but for all, and 2. if you're scrubbing
> your nadis and practicing pranayama, it's a
> little like being a celibate nun not being permitted
> Jesus in her heart. All dressed up and
> no place to go......
>
> Yeah, I think a bunch of hatha yoga students would
> flock to AYP, for sure. It's a great
> companion to Iyengar yoga, especially.
>

1076 From: "jim_and_his_karma" <jim_and_his_karma@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri Jun 17, 2005 3:04am
Subject: Re: Cautionary Tale: Don't Stop Practicing! jim_and_his_...
Offline
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If you mean specifically my AYP practice, I started that back in February. But because I've
been doing a number of practices for kind of my whole lifetime (including 90 min/day
hatha yoga for a few years up to that point), I'd made fast progress (I had an immediate
kundalini awakening upon reading lesson #56...I shouldn't have been skipping ahead, but
I thought I was just reading!).

I'm in about day 10 of my renewed practice, and only today am I really starting to reenter
the realm that I was in. The scary thing is I was NOT aware of how seriously I'd
backtracked in the interim, until I sat down and did practice. I was a different person living
in a different universe, but I'd had no idea.

I've stopped and restarted ninety gazillion things in my lifetime. i thought I knew what
that's all about. But this was by far the single fastest dry-up I've ever experienced in any
realm of life. I'm absolutely dumbfounded....and, having regained at least some of what I
had before, I wag my head in astonishment that I wasn't aware, at the time, of how much
I'd lost.

Words truly cannot express how vital it is not to lapse. The combo of the torturously slow
process of renewal, the obliviousness to what had been lost (man, I could have continued
lapsing for months...even years!), and the WOOMPH of stuff I thought had been cleared
landing back on my head (frankly, I was near suicidal) are some kind of hell.

Tonight I know peace and happiness again. Not two things I knew much about for most of
my life. How on earth did I not notice them missing this past month? And how could I let
them go? Holy mole....peace and happiness are no small thing! Don't be stupid like me and
neglect the practice that elicits them! You can't take them for granted. They don't stick
around (much less grow) without maintanence!

Please guys, let's not have too many other testimonials like this here. Let me be the only
idiot, ok?

--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "lilia_petkova" <lilia_petkova@y...> wrote:
> Dear Jim,
>
> What you are saying is interesting - could you also add for how long
> did you maintain a continuous practice before you took this month or
> so off? Are you feeling better now that several more days have
> passed - got rid of the big cosmic WOOMF :-)? I don't have any
> excuses for skipping practice now and have been at it for about 8
> mths without a gap but I fear this might change at some point who
> knows.
>
> Thanks for sharing this with us,
> Lili
>
> --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "jim_and_his_karma"
> <jim_and_his_karma@y...> wrote:
>
> > Suspended AYP is more extreme. After a couple of lapsed weeks, I
> felt as if all the crap I'd
> > cleared out came back all at once, dumping downward on me with a
> big cosmic WOOMF.
> > Really REALLY unpleasant, and quite unexpected. And relaunching
> has been surprisingly
> > difficult.
> >

Yahoo AYP Forum Archive Threads / Time Line / Pacing

« Last post by AYPforum on July 08, 2005, 03:39:14 AM »

1047 From: "Melissa" <mm7810@gmail.com>
Date: Tue Jun 14, 2005 4:58pm
Subject: Time Line / Pacing mm78102002
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Hello everybody -

I am wondering about something. I know Yogani talks about pacing
oneself quite a bit in his lessons. I have just recently restarted
practicing yoga following the AYP lessons. They really are quite
powerful, to put it mildly. The thing which I cannot quite understand
is how in the past, yogis would practice for hours on end, each and
every day. For me, and most others [assumption here], going much over
a total of 30-40 minutes total for 2-3 times a day begins to cause
alot of unpleasant symptoms. What gives? Are we just carrying around
a lot more baggage that needs cleaning out, or has the "whole" shifted
it's energies higher so that just a little practice carries a lot more
bang than it used to? Does anyone understand what I am talking about
here? Comments are appreciated.

Melissa

1048 From: "obsidian9999" <obsidian9999@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue Jun 14, 2005 5:35pm
Subject: Re: Time Line / Pacing obsidian9999
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Hello Melissa,

I understand what you are saying.

> The thing which I cannot quite understand
> is how in the past, yogis would practice for hours on end, each and
> every day.

There are a number of things that make this easier and others that
make it hard. One thing to keep in mind is that such yogis who do
such extended practice usually don't have demanding
responsibilities, such as day job, children etc. They are usually
retired, or in an ashram, or have leisure for other reasons.

The other is that after a long time at it, a lot of the 'impurities'
are already released and therefore history, making it possible to do
the extended practice.

Are we just carrying around
> a lot more baggage that needs cleaning out, or has the "whole"
shifted
> it's energies higher so that just a little practice carries a lot
more
> bang than it used to?

All these things are possible too, I just don't know. Note that
none of these effects are necessarily mutually exclusive --- they
could *all* be going on.

Best regards,

-D

--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "Melissa" <mm7810@g...> wrote:
> Hello everybody -
>
> I am wondering about something. I know Yogani talks about pacing
> oneself quite a bit in his lessons. I have just recently restarted
> practicing yoga following the AYP lessons. They really are quite
> powerful, to put it mildly. The thing which I cannot quite
understand
> is how in the past, yogis would practice for hours on end, each and
> every day. For me, and most others [assumption here], going much
over
> a total of 30-40 minutes total for 2-3 times a day begins to cause
> alot of unpleasant symptoms. What gives? Are we just carrying
around
> a lot more baggage that needs cleaning out, or has the "whole"
shifted
> it's energies higher so that just a little practice carries a lot
more
> bang than it used to? Does anyone understand what I am talking
about
> here? Comments are appreciated.
>
> Melissa

1050 From: "jim_and_his_karma" <jim_and_his_karma@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue Jun 14, 2005 10:59pm
Subject: Re: Time Line / Pacing jim_and_his_...
Offline
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good answer from david. I'll just add on....you'll eventually reach a point where you'll want
to do nothing BUT this stuff, because an exraordinary amount of ecstasy is available to you
(with fewer and fewer side effects as the coarse blockages are worked through). And that,
let's face it, is a lot more attractive a prospect than waiting in line at the motor vehicle
bureau, etc. At that point, the discipline is about staying in the world and limiting your
practice rather than jumping down the rabbit hole.

Note that Yogani advocates a 2x/day practice. Not to be Mr. Stickler Doctrinaire, but my
feeling is that if you see enough value in his program to really dive in (and I certainly
understand those who find other paths/practices more suitable), it makes sense to trust
him on the details. I mean, if I'm learning to sky dive and they tell me to count to 10
before pulling the cord, I may or may not actually get on the plane, but if I do, I'm not
gonna count to 9 or 11, y'know?

J&K

--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "Melissa" <mm7810@g...> wrote:
> Hello everybody -
>
> I am wondering about something. I know Yogani talks about pacing
> oneself quite a bit in his lessons. I have just recently restarted
> practicing yoga following the AYP lessons. They really are quite
> powerful, to put it mildly. The thing which I cannot quite understand
> is how in the past, yogis would practice for hours on end, each and
> every day. For me, and most others [assumption here], going much over
> a total of 30-40 minutes total for 2-3 times a day begins to cause
> alot of unpleasant symptoms. What gives? Are we just carrying around
> a lot more baggage that needs cleaning out, or has the "whole" shifted
> it's energies higher so that just a little practice carries a lot more
> bang than it used to? Does anyone understand what I am talking about
> here? Comments are appreciated.
>
> Melissa

1062 From: "Melissa" <mm7810@gmail.com>
Date: Thu Jun 16, 2005 0:51am
Subject: Re: Time Line / Pacing mm78102002
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Thanks for your comments Jim and Obsidian. Strangely, I found
myself somewhat "symptomatic" at first, and then it passes and I can
do more. My interpretation is that "stuff" has been resolved. I
have a clairvoyant friend who says this agrees with what she sees in
my energy system. Oh, and Jim . . . I AM at that point where I
don't want to do anything else! - lol

That is why I have to
make myself NOT do it 10 times a day, because intellectually I know
better and I don't want to fry myself!

Melissa

--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "jim_and_his_karma"
<jim_and_his_karma@y...> wrote:
> good answer from david. I'll just add on....you'll eventually
reach a point where you'll want
> to do nothing BUT this stuff, because an exraordinary amount of
ecstasy is available to you
> (with fewer and fewer side effects as the coarse blockages are
worked through). And that,
> let's face it, is a lot more attractive a prospect than waiting in
line at the motor vehicle
> bureau, etc. At that point, the discipline is about staying in
the world and limiting your
> practice rather than jumping down the rabbit hole.
>
> Note that Yogani advocates a 2x/day practice. Not to be Mr.
Stickler Doctrinaire, but my
> feeling is that if you see enough value in his program to really
dive in (and I certainly
> understand those who find other paths/practices more suitable), it
makes sense to trust
> him on the details. I mean, if I'm learning to sky dive and they
tell me to count to 10
> before pulling the cord, I may or may not actually get on the
plane, but if I do, I'm not
> gonna count to 9 or 11, y'know?

>
> J&K
>
>
> --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "Melissa" <mm7810@g...> wrote:
> > Hello everybody -
> >
> > I am wondering about something. I know Yogani talks about
pacing
> > oneself quite a bit in his lessons. I have just recently
restarted
> > practicing yoga following the AYP lessons. They really are
quite
> > powerful, to put it mildly. The thing which I cannot quite
understand
> > is how in the past, yogis would practice for hours on end, each
and
> > every day. For me, and most others [assumption here], going
much over
> > a total of 30-40 minutes total for 2-3 times a day begins to
cause
> > alot of unpleasant symptoms. What gives? Are we just carrying
around
> > a lot more baggage that needs cleaning out, or has the "whole"
shifted
> > it's energies higher so that just a little practice carries a
lot more
> > bang than it used to? Does anyone understand what I am talking
about
> > here? Comments are appreciated.
> >
> > Melissa

1075 From: "jim_and_his_karma" <jim_and_his_karma@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri Jun 17, 2005 2:49am
Subject: Re: Time Line / Pacing jim_and_his_...
Offline
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--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "Melissa" <mm7810@g...> wrote:
> Thanks for your comments Jim and Obsidian. Strangely, I found
> myself somewhat "symptomatic" at first, and then it passes and I can
> do more. My interpretation is that "stuff" has been resolved. I
> have a clairvoyant friend who says this agrees with what she sees in
> my energy system. Oh, and Jim . . . I AM at that point where I
> don't want to do anything else! - lol

That is why I have to
> make myself NOT do it 10 times a day, because intellectually I know
> better and I don't want to fry myself!

It's not just frying (though that is an unpleasant prospect!). As we discussed way back in
some of the earlier discussion here, it's a bad idea to make AYP the central main thing
we're "into". The danger is that we will, in time, find other thing we're "into". I have a closet
full of things I used to be "into", and I bet you do, too!

Also, "the thing we're into" is the first to get abandoned when life gets hectic.

So rather than make AYP our feature presentation - and risk having a new movie swap in
at some point, or find we don't have time for movies at all for a while - we do a compact
20-30 minute practice twice a day, and hope that's sustainable in the long term.....even if
we get busy or absorbed in other things (as we surely will!). AYP is ideally like brushing
teeth; something that's a part of who we are and how we live.

If it becomes something sucking lots of time, it will become a much more volatile element.
And this is a very long-run practice!

1079 From: "obsidian9999" <obsidian9999@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri Jun 17, 2005 10:57am
Subject: Re: Time Line / Pacing obsidian9999
Offline
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Hello Melissa,

There's yet another very good reason why not to over-immerse yourself
in practice. If you do, there is a good chance you are being drawn
by the pleasure-pain principle, which means being pulled wherever
your strongest desires take you.

If you follow this impulse too far, your practice can then 'spoil'
you, in the sense of 'spoilt child'; you can end up continuously
doing what you most immediately desire, which is practice. If you
follow that too much, you can fall into all the negative results of
the overgrown pleasure-pain principle, which include laziness,
excessive self-focus, and self-concern. You can become a couch
potato of a kind; instead of slopping beer and dougnuts, you become
a celestial couch potato who slops prana.

If you do that, you may advance in *certain* ways. But you'll
become imbalanced in your development. You'll have some advanced
energies, but some real spiritual kindergarten stuff which really
holds you back. Your undone work will probably be much trickier,
and more painful to get through than it would have been if you had
taken the more balanced route.

The pleasure-pain principle is not transcended in bliss alone. It's
transcended in the muck of life. And in giving. The 'muscle' to
transcend it has to be exercised every day. In balance.

Blessings,

-D

--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "jim_and_his_karma"
<jim_and_his_karma@y...> wrote:
> --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "Melissa" <mm7810@g...> wrote:
> > Thanks for your comments Jim and Obsidian. Strangely, I found
> > myself somewhat "symptomatic" at first, and then it passes and I
can
> > do more. My interpretation is that "stuff" has been resolved. I
> > have a clairvoyant friend who says this agrees with what she sees
in
> > my energy system. Oh, and Jim . . . I AM at that point where I
> > don't want to do anything else! - lol

That is why I have to
> > make myself NOT do it 10 times a day, because intellectually I
know
> > better and I don't want to fry myself!
>
>
> It's not just frying (though that is an unpleasant prospect!). As
we discussed way back in
> some of the earlier discussion here, it's a bad idea to make AYP
the central main thing
> we're "into". The danger is that we will, in time, find other thing
we're "into". I have a closet
> full of things I used to be "into", and I bet you do, too!
>
> Also, "the thing we're into" is the first to get abandoned when
life gets hectic.
>
> So rather than make AYP our feature presentation - and risk having
a new movie swap in
> at some point, or find we don't have time for movies at all for a
while - we do a compact
> 20-30 minute practice twice a day, and hope that's sustainable in
the long term.....even if
> we get busy or absorbed in other things (as we surely will!). AYP
is ideally like brushing
> teeth; something that's a part of who we are and how we live.
>
> If it becomes something sucking lots of time, it will become a much
more volatile element.
> And this is a very long-run practice!

Yahoo AYP Forum Archive Threads / Eckhart Tolle and The power of Now

« Last post by AYPforum on July 08, 2005, 03:38:29 AM »

1044 From: "gregacu108" <gleblanc@turningpointonline.info>
Date: Tue Jun 14, 2005 2:44pm
Subject: Eckhart Tolle and The power of Now gregacu108
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I was wondering if anyone else has read this book and was as impressed
with it as I was.

My question to our senior Advanced Yoga Practitioners is do you think
that the Silence/Bliss in AYP and the Silence Tolle talks about are
the same experience or different. If the same, does it make sense to
draw from Tolle's methods to enhance our experience of silence and
peace in our day to day life? I am referring specifically to his
practice of watching our thoughts and emotions and not directly
identifying with them, as well as focusing our attention into the
timeless moment of the now.

Thanks

Greg

1046 From: "obsidian9999" <obsidian9999@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue Jun 14, 2005 4:19pm
Subject: Re: Eckhart Tolle and The power of Now obsidian9999
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> I was wondering if anyone else has read this book and was as
impressed
> with it as I was.

Hello Greg,

I was impressed with it too. I did find it very inspiring and very
lucid. A very strong work. (There were some small parts of it I found
a little odd, but not problematically so. Anyway, I've learned to
maximize the best of what I read and just let the odd stuff wash by.)

Keep in mind that the power of a work for you will depend a lot on how
it is tailored for your own energies. So other people whose energies
are a little different won't necessarily find the same power in it.
His work though was one that seemed to hit home for a lot of people.

> My question to our senior Advanced Yoga Practitioners is do you think
> that the Silence/Bliss in AYP and the Silence Tolle talks about are
> the same experience or different. If the same, does it make sense to
> draw from Tolle's methods to enhance our experience of silence and
> peace in our day to day life? I am referring specifically to his
> practice of watching our thoughts and emotions and not directly
> identifying with them, as well as focusing our attention into the
> timeless moment of the now.

The senior AYP Practicioners are all out the back smoking cigarettes.
So I'm going to try to answer your question.

Yes I do think it is
the same Silence/Bliss. Absolutely, I think it makes sense to draw
from his methods. BTW I think his methods were heavily influenced, in
their development, by his working with various teachers in the zen
tradition and others.

Best regards,

-D

Yahoo AYP Forum Archive Threads / Diaphragmatic Contractions in Meditation

« Last post by AYPforum on July 08, 2005, 03:37:57 AM »

1023 From: "jim_and_his_karma" <jim_and_his_karma@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri Jun 10, 2005 4:59pm
Subject: Diaphragmatic Contractions in Meditation jim_and_his_...
Offline
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I was going deep in my meditation, and started getting fast shallow contractions of the
diaphragm (as I sometimes do; they apparently are common in meditation), and realized
that it's exactly like laughing or crying. When such contractions die down, I'm always left
with a deep calm....similar to the way laughing and crying both make you feel better. I
figured that it was, as with pranayama, a natural way for the body to draw out its deepest
primal energy reserves.

Scientists, I've read, don't understand the process of human laughter or crying...why
people across all cultures exhibit these waves of diaphragmatic contractions....why they're
healing....or why they're somewhat contagious.

Interesting, no?

1033 From: "obsidian9999" <obsidian9999@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon Jun 13, 2005 10:06am
Subject: Soft belly, Laughing Buddha -- Re: Diaphragmatic Contractions in Meditation obsidian9999
Offline
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Hello Jim,

I haven't actually got those diaphragmatic contractions in meditation
myself, but I have definitely noticed that I do get them sometimes
when I see or hear something funny.

Interesting subject indeed.

By the way, in laughter and crying, the contractions are not at all
just diaphragmatic, but involve so many muscles of the belly. So
here's what I think is going on when we laugh or cry---

I think a soft belly is part of What It's All About. If your
unconscious mind (to speak roughly) is keeping your belly soft,
there is a good chance that you are in a state of Divine Humor, of
openness, of receptiveness. People have noted that softening the
belly is a good technique for letting in whatever emotion has to come
in, whether grief, or happiness. It is dropping defenses against
reality, it is 'Letting Go'. So we have the chinese Laughing
Buddha, with his big fat soft belly.

Now, what on earth would *contractions*, which are about hardening
the belly, have to do with keeping the belly *soft*? Everything.
Many people who do yoga and body work are aware of the tip that,
when you can't relax something at will, sometimes you need to
contract it at will, sometimes as hard as you can, and then let go
of that contraction. Then it relaxes, paradoxically, as a result
of contraction.

Now, here is my theory [cough] and it is the theory which is mine
[cough] when we get those contractions when we laugh or cry, our
body is doing an ancient, primordial Kriya, which has the purpose
of softening the belly.

What put me on to this insight? Recent work in Nauli Kriya --- as I
started to get further into Nauli Kriya, I started releasing some
hardness in my belly that had always been there. Stuff that not even
Monty Python could get to.

--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "jim_and_his_karma"
<jim_and_his_karma@y...> wrote:
> I was going deep in my meditation, and started getting fast shallow
contractions of the
> diaphragm (as I sometimes do; they apparently are common in
meditation), and realized
> that it's exactly like laughing or crying. When such contractions
die down, I'm always left
> with a deep calm....similar to the way laughing and crying both
make you feel better. I
> figured that it was, as with pranayama, a natural way for the body
to draw out its deepest
> primal energy reserves.
>
> Scientists, I've read, don't understand the process of human
laughter or crying...why
> people across all cultures exhibit these waves of diaphragmatic
contractions....why they're
> healing....or why they're somewhat contagious.
>
> Interesting, no?

1034 From: "jim_and_his_karma" <jim_and_his_karma@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon Jun 13, 2005 0:42pm
Subject: Soft belly, Laughing Buddha -- Re: Diaphragmatic Contractions in Meditation jim_and_his_...
Offline
Send Email

But nauli is all about contractions...inherently! As is uddiyana. And most traditions (Zen
Tao, Tai Chi) teach a firm navel/haru. Not "hard", though....just firm.

--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "obsidian9999" <obsidian9999@y...> wrote:
>
> Hello Jim,
>
> I haven't actually got those diaphragmatic contractions in meditation
> myself, but I have definitely noticed that I do get them sometimes
> when I see or hear something funny.

>
> Interesting subject indeed.
>
> By the way, in laughter and crying, the contractions are not at all
> just diaphragmatic, but involve so many muscles of the belly. So
> here's what I think is going on when we laugh or cry---
>
> I think a soft belly is part of What It's All About. If your
> unconscious mind (to speak roughly) is keeping your belly soft,
> there is a good chance that you are in a state of Divine Humor, of
> openness, of receptiveness. People have noted that softening the
> belly is a good technique for letting in whatever emotion has to come
> in, whether grief, or happiness. It is dropping defenses against
> reality, it is 'Letting Go'. So we have the chinese Laughing
> Buddha, with his big fat soft belly.
>
> Now, what on earth would *contractions*, which are about hardening
> the belly, have to do with keeping the belly *soft*? Everything.
> Many people who do yoga and body work are aware of the tip that,
> when you can't relax something at will, sometimes you need to
> contract it at will, sometimes as hard as you can, and then let go
> of that contraction. Then it relaxes, paradoxically, as a result
> of contraction.
>
> Now, here is my theory [cough] and it is the theory which is mine
> [cough] when we get those contractions when we laugh or cry, our
> body is doing an ancient, primordial Kriya, which has the purpose
> of softening the belly.
>
> What put me on to this insight? Recent work in Nauli Kriya --- as I
> started to get further into Nauli Kriya, I started releasing some
> hardness in my belly that had always been there. Stuff that not even
> Monty Python could get to.
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "jim_and_his_karma"
> <jim_and_his_karma@y...> wrote:
> > I was going deep in my meditation, and started getting fast shallow
> contractions of the
> > diaphragm (as I sometimes do; they apparently are common in
> meditation), and realized
> > that it's exactly like laughing or crying. When such contractions
> die down, I'm always left
> > with a deep calm....similar to the way laughing and crying both
> make you feel better. I
> > figured that it was, as with pranayama, a natural way for the body
> to draw out its deepest
> > primal energy reserves.
> >
> > Scientists, I've read, don't understand the process of human
> laughter or crying...why
> > people across all cultures exhibit these waves of diaphragmatic
> contractions....why they're
> > healing....or why they're somewhat contagious.
> >
> > Interesting, no?

1035 From: "obsidian9999" <obsidian9999@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon Jun 13, 2005 1:57pm
Subject: Soft belly, Laughing Buddha -- Re: Diaphragmatic Contractions in Meditation obsidian9999
Offline
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Hello Jim,

I don't know what you mean by 'But nauli is all about
contractions...inherently!'. What on earth is the meaning of that?

I've just been explaining how contractions, perhaps counter-
intuitively, can lead to the *ability* to soften what could not be
softened before.....

And nauli in fact, far from being 'all about contractions', stands apart in that it develops the ability to keep some of the muscles soft (uncontracted) while the others remain contracted.

It's really easy to contract all of them, in a very unsophisticated
exercise. Like simply lying on your back and raising your legs.
When you contract some, you tend to contract all. That is easy.
Nauli counteracts this pattern. Nauli is about maintaining non-contraction in resistence to a strong tendency to contraction. People find it very hard to contract one side without the other.

So nauli develops sophisticated non-contraction. That is what makes
it hard to develop --- and, I believe, what makes it so useful....

>>> And most traditions (Zen
> Tao, Tai Chi) teach a firm navel/haru. Not "hard", though....just
firm.

They do, but do they say 'keep a firm haru always'? And if they
did, would they be right? I don't think so.

Here's a hospice-related meditation on letting in grief that is
focussing on 'softening the belly':

http://www.aniccahouse.org/htm/buddhist_hindu_stephen_levine_meditatio
n_care_santa_cruz_san_francisco.htm

Finally, did you know that softening the belly is a technique to
prevent male ejaculation? (Thus having a value in spiritual sex.)
It's an *extremely* effective one, for those who are able to do it
well.

But it is not necessarily easy to do well. Those techniques that
Yogani teaches are more accessible to most people.

I think nauli can help a lot there, for people who want to try that
method.

-D

--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "jim_and_his_karma"
<jim_and_his_karma@y...> wrote:
> But nauli is all about contractions...inherently! As is uddiyana.
And most traditions (Zen
> Tao, Tai Chi) teach a firm navel/haru. Not "hard", though....just
firm.
>
>
>
> --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "obsidian9999" <obsidian9999@y...>
wrote:
> >
> > Hello Jim,
> >
> > I haven't actually got those diaphragmatic contractions in
meditation
> > myself, but I have definitely noticed that I do get them
sometimes
> > when I see or hear something funny.

> >
> > Interesting subject indeed.
> >
> > By the way, in laughter and crying, the contractions are not at
all
> > just diaphragmatic, but involve so many muscles of the belly.
So
> > here's what I think is going on when we laugh or cry---
> >
> > I think a soft belly is part of What It's All About. If your
> > unconscious mind (to speak roughly) is keeping your belly soft,
> > there is a good chance that you are in a state of Divine Humor,
of
> > openness, of receptiveness. People have noted that softening
the
> > belly is a good technique for letting in whatever emotion has to
come
> > in, whether grief, or happiness. It is dropping defenses
against
> > reality, it is 'Letting Go'. So we have the chinese Laughing
> > Buddha, with his big fat soft belly.
> >
> > Now, what on earth would *contractions*, which are about
hardening
> > the belly, have to do with keeping the belly *soft*?
Everything.
> > Many people who do yoga and body work are aware of the tip that,
> > when you can't relax something at will, sometimes you need to
> > contract it at will, sometimes as hard as you can, and then let
go
> > of that contraction. Then it relaxes, paradoxically, as a
result
> > of contraction.
> >
> > Now, here is my theory [cough] and it is the theory which is
mine
> > [cough] when we get those contractions when we laugh or cry,
our
> > body is doing an ancient, primordial Kriya, which has the
purpose
> > of softening the belly.
> >
> > What put me on to this insight? Recent work in Nauli Kriya ---
as I
> > started to get further into Nauli Kriya, I started releasing
some
> > hardness in my belly that had always been there. Stuff that not
even
> > Monty Python could get to.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "jim_and_his_karma"
> > <jim_and_his_karma@y...> wrote:
> > > I was going deep in my meditation, and started getting fast
shallow
> > contractions of the
> > > diaphragm (as I sometimes do; they apparently are common in
> > meditation), and realized
> > > that it's exactly like laughing or crying. When such
contractions
> > die down, I'm always left
> > > with a deep calm....similar to the way laughing and crying both
> > make you feel better. I
> > > figured that it was, as with pranayama, a natural way for the
body
> > to draw out its deepest
> > > primal energy reserves.
> > >
> > > Scientists, I've read, don't understand the process of human
> > laughter or crying...why
> > > people across all cultures exhibit these waves of diaphragmatic
> > contractions....why they're
> > > healing....or why they're somewhat contagious.
> > >
> > > Interesting, no?

1036 From: victor yj <vic@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon Jun 13, 2005 9:42pm
Subject: Re: Soft belly, Laughing Buddha -- Re: Diaphragmatic Contractions in Meditation vic
Offline
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-Interesting commentary as I am exploring the
softness/firmness of the belly in my practice quite a
bit lately. I had for years learned to cultivate the
soft belly and it indeed does cultivate a more feeling
emotional tone and energetic flow as well as helping
sexually remove the sense of urgency (I like that
phrasing better than "control"). I have observed
though that over the course of the years my belly had
grown a bit (like many men my age) though the rest of
me does not feel very fatty. Working on the lift of
mula bandha is helping and today in meditation the act
of letting the exhale give me more firmness in the
belly feels like a better direction of the energy than
just letting it hang out. Its not exactly uddiyana but
maybe more like energetically connecting teh heart and
pelvis area rather than letting it feel like a gap
there. Hard to describe especially since Iit is still
new to me but definitely a good feeling from firming
rather than gripping the abdomen. bringing the breath
closer to teh spine and therefore encouraging length
in the spine. Maybe not so coherent yet but my
practice does teach me alot from just doing it and
this is one observation..........

__________________________________
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1037 From: "jim_and_his_karma" <jim_and_his_karma@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon Jun 13, 2005 11:06pm
Subject: Soft belly, Laughing Buddha -- Re: Diaphragmatic Contractions in Meditation jim_and_his_...
Offline
Send Email

I have observed
> though that over the course of the years my belly had
> grown a bit (like many men my age) though the rest of
> me does not feel very fatty. Working on the lift of
> mula bandha is helping and today in meditation the act
> of letting the exhale give me more firmness in the
> belly feels like a better direction of the energy than
> just letting it hang out. Its not exactly uddiyana but
> maybe more like energetically connecting teh heart and
> pelvis area rather than letting it feel like a gap
> there. Hard to describe especially since Iit is still
> new to me but definitely a good feeling from firming
> rather than gripping the abdomen. bringing the breath
> closer to teh spine and therefore encouraging length
> in the spine. Maybe not so coherent yet but my
> practice does teach me alot from just doing it and
> this is one observation..........

I'm exactly where you are in every part of this. Kinda strange.

I'm currently using with a range of uddiyanas, from rather extreme (with a firm
mulhabanda and asvinibandha, which really rouses the kundalini) to just the lightest
energetic touch off uddiyana, and 2. trying to maintain that energetic uddiyan throughout
my day, and 3. raising my back ribs and spine thoughout my day, too, using the solar
plexus as the lever point...which amounts to a sort of uddiyana, which I connect to #2.

I think we're both suffering from a common iyengar problem: our lift of the front body is
not applied to the back body, which tilts the trunk back and makes the stomach jut out.
Correcting the tilt and the resultant jutting out of the stomach amounts to a de facto
uddiyana, especially since much attention needs to go to the solar plexus to correct this
tilting.

I'm also finding that this correction helps vastly in bringing energy down from the head.

Sorry to non Iyengar people who got lost in that lingo....

1040 From: "obsidian9999" <obsidian9999@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue Jun 14, 2005 9:46am
Subject: Soft belly, Laughing Buddha -- Re: Diaphragmatic Contractions in Meditation obsidian9999
Offline
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> I have observed
> though that over the course of the years my belly had
> grown a bit (like many men my age) though the rest of
> me does not feel very fatty. >

Hello Victor,

I think another effect is that various yoga exercises (including nauli
kriya) actually develop the belly muscles, especially if done a lot.
This can look like a fatty belly but actually be a muscular belly.

-D

1038 From: "jim_and_his_karma" <jim_and_his_karma@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon Jun 13, 2005 11:15pm
Subject: Soft belly, Laughing Buddha -- Re: Diaphragmatic Contractions in Meditation jim_and_his_...
Offline
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--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "obsidian9999" <obsidian9999@y...> wrote:
> Hello Jim,
>
> I don't know what you mean by 'But nauli is all about
> contractions...inherently!'. What on earth is the meaning of that?

Nauli is performed by contracting stomach muscles. Yes, relaxing others, too. But until
you reach the level of subtlety where nauli's more gesture than action, it's very much a
discipline of contraction.

> Finally, did you know that softening the belly is a technique to
> prevent male ejaculation? (Thus having a value in spiritual sex.)
> It's an *extremely* effective one, for those who are able to do it
> well.

I can do a full vajroli mudra. I wouldn't describe the action as "softening the belly". As with
nauli, it's about knowing where to contract and where to relax.

1039 From: "obsidian9999" <obsidian9999@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue Jun 14, 2005 9:37am
Subject: Soft belly, Laughing Buddha -- Re: Diaphragmatic Contractions in Meditation obsidian9999
Offline
Send Email

No Jim, I'm not talking about vajroli mudra at all. This is an
entirely different technique. I think it's not as well known.

Part of the ejaculation process is to harden the belly. If you keep
it soft (and that is not necessarily easy to do) the ejaculation is
inhibited. You need to get into a good dynamic between the subtle
component and the physical; softening the belly couples (!) with
emotional tenderness and the thing is like an ecstatic physical
prayer. The physical and emotional-spiritual aspect work together to
inhibit the orgasm.

Give it a shot ... though maybe that's the wrong word.

--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "jim_and_his_karma"
<jim_and_his_karma@y...> wrote:
> --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "obsidian9999" <obsidian9999@y...>
wrote:
> > Hello Jim,
> >
> > I don't know what you mean by 'But nauli is all about
> > contractions...inherently!'. What on earth is the meaning of
that?
>
> Nauli is performed by contracting stomach muscles. Yes, relaxing
others, too. But until
> you reach the level of subtlety where nauli's more gesture than
action, it's very much a
> discipline of contraction.
>
>
> > Finally, did you know that softening the belly is a technique to
> > prevent male ejaculation? (Thus having a value in spiritual
sex.)
> > It's an *extremely* effective one, for those who are able to do
it
> > well.
>
> I can do a full vajroli mudra. I wouldn't describe the action
as "softening the belly". As with
> nauli, it's about knowing where to contract and where to relax.

1041 From: "obsidian9999" <obsidian9999@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue Jun 14, 2005 11:04am
Subject: Soft belly, Laughing Buddha obsidian9999
Offline
Send Email

Just to be totally explicit there since there may have been some
confusion --- this approach to ejaculation-inhibition doesn't involve
any contractions anywhere at all. This one is all about keeping a
soft belly, with the attendent emotional-spiritual softness and
openness. Surprising perhaps that it inhibits ejaculation, but it
does.

--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "obsidian9999" <obsidian9999@y...>
wrote:
>
> No Jim, I'm not talking about vajroli mudra at all. This is an
> entirely different technique. I think it's not as well known.
>
> Part of the ejaculation process is to harden the belly. If you
keep
> it soft (and that is not necessarily easy to do) the ejaculation is
> inhibited. You need to get into a good dynamic between the subtle
> component and the physical; softening the belly couples (!) with
> emotional tenderness and the thing is like an ecstatic physical
> prayer. The physical and emotional-spiritual aspect work together
to
> inhibit the orgasm.
>
> Give it a shot ... though maybe that's the wrong word.

>
>
> --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "jim_and_his_karma"
> <jim_and_his_karma@y...> wrote:
> > --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "obsidian9999"
<obsidian9999@y...>
> wrote:
> > > Hello Jim,
> > >
> > > I don't know what you mean by 'But nauli is all about
> > > contractions...inherently!'. What on earth is the meaning of
> that?
> >
> > Nauli is performed by contracting stomach muscles. Yes, relaxing
> others, too. But until
> > you reach the level of subtlety where nauli's more gesture than
> action, it's very much a
> > discipline of contraction.
> >
> >
> > > Finally, did you know that softening the belly is a technique
to
> > > prevent male ejaculation? (Thus having a value in spiritual
> sex.)
> > > It's an *extremely* effective one, for those who are able to
do
> it
> > > well.
> >
> > I can do a full vajroli mudra. I wouldn't describe the action
> as "softening the belly". As with
> > nauli, it's about knowing where to contract and where to relax.

1043 From: "jim_and_his_karma" <jim_and_his_karma@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue Jun 14, 2005 0:59pm
Subject: Soft belly, Laughing Buddha -- Re: Diaphragmatic Contractions in Meditation jim_and_his_...
Offline
Send Email

--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "obsidian9999" <obsidian9999@y...> wrote:
>
> No Jim, I'm not talking about vajroli mudra at all. This is an
> entirely different technique. I think it's not as well known.
>
> Part of the ejaculation process is to harden the belly. If you keep
> it soft (and that is not necessarily easy to do) the ejaculation is
> inhibited. You need to get into a good dynamic between the subtle
> component and the physical; softening the belly couples (!) with
> emotional tenderness and the thing is like an ecstatic physical
> prayer. The physical and emotional-spiritual aspect work together to
> inhibit the orgasm.

there's a yoga move, forgot the name, that's sort of the opposite of uddiyana, which
involves hyper relaxing the stomach muscles and results in the belly being thrust really far
outward, almost like a balloon. is this the move?

The other element to add onto that combo of softening, tenderness, and prayer, is a very
strong compulsion of "up". Up the spine. If you just muscularly cease the ejaculation,
you're not using it spiritually.

"Give it a shot"! LOL!

1045 From: "obsidian9999" <obsidian9999@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue Jun 14, 2005 4:26pm
Subject: Soft belly, Laughing Buddha -- Re: Diaphragmatic Contractions in Meditation obsidian9999
Offline
Send Email

> there's a yoga move, forgot the name, that's sort of the opposite of
uddiyana, which
> involves hyper relaxing the stomach muscles and results in the belly
being thrust really far
> outward, almost like a balloon. is this the move?

Yes, no, maybe and I don't know. Seriously. This stuff has been
coming to me only in the last few months, and I haven't separated out
all the muscles and all the components. There are a lot of muscles
down there. Also, the 'subtle' aspect is very important -- whereas
relaxing the muscles may do a lot, it might not be enough in itself.

-D

1049 From: victor yj <vic@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue Jun 14, 2005 9:53pm
Subject: Re: Soft belly, Laughing Buddha -- Re: Diaphragmatic Contractions in Meditation vic
Offline
Send Email

Another observation is that if the front belly is
softened but the back muscles (back part of the
diaphragm) are unconciously tight it can make the
belly protrude. I am working with that lately and it
certainly releases the breath and allows the belly to
naturally move towards the spine without contraction.

__________________________________________________
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1051 From: "jim_and_his_karma" <jim_and_his_karma@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue Jun 14, 2005 11:03pm
Subject: Soft belly, Laughing Buddha -- Re: Diaphragmatic Contractions in Meditation jim_and_his_...
Offline
Send Email

can you talk more about this, please? how you discovered it, and how you're rectifiying?

thanks!

--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, victor yj <vic@y...> wrote:
> Another observation is that if the front belly is
> softened but the back muscles (back part of the
> diaphragm) are unconciously tight it can make the
> belly protrude. I am working with that lately and it
> certainly releases the breath and allows the belly to
> naturally move towards the spine without contraction.
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com

Yahoo AYP Forum Archive Threads / Comments on Amaroli by Dr Sirish Bhate @ AyurvedaO

« Last post by AYPforum on July 08, 2005, 03:36:16 AM »

1018 From: Prashanth <shanthps@india.hp.com>
Date: Wed Jun 8, 2005 7:17am
Subject: Comments on Amaroli by Dr Sirish Bhate @ AyurvedaOnline prashu_ps
Offline
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Thought this could provide more details to members practicing Amaroli.
Please post any queries to ayurvedaonline@yahoogroups.com .

*http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/ayurvedaonline/message/3825

*Best Regards
Prash

Yahoo AYP Forum Archive Threads / Crown chakra pressure, how to stop it

« Last post by AYPforum on July 08, 2005, 03:35:35 AM »

1011 From: "Margaret" <memeggings@yahoo.ca>
Date: Tue Jun 7, 2005 0:45pm
Subject: Crown chakra pressure, how to stop it memeggings
Offline
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Hi, I'm looking for guidance again. I'm not doing any particular
meditation but think of God-in-me a lot, and often in my ordinary
activities I feel sudden God awareness, like a "hello". It happened
yesterday and it continued through my busy day and I wanted the
pressure in my crown chakra to abate and don't know how to do that. I
feel there may be a danger if this pressure builds up and breaks
through. I suppose I'm practising something akin to bakti, but it's my
natural condition to feel love for God and I don't want to stop that
either. Even now as I write this, the tingling in my crown is
something I'd just like to be able to stop for a bit. I guess my main
concern is that it eventually feels almost painful, and I wonder if it
might wreak havoc if it breaks through...who would take care of me if I
went "off the deep end" with an opened crown chakra? Got to stop
writing about it for the pain won't stop. Please advise.
Margaret

1012 From: ATHENA JANISZEWSKI <athena5250@rogers.com>
Date: Tue Jun 7, 2005 1:33pm
Subject: Re: Crown chakra pressure, how to stop it soror_x2
Offline
Send Email

Disclaimer: I am far from an expert, just another
person that has had the same symptoms.

--
I can relate, very, very much to your email. Even how
it seems to get worse when you write about it!

I started letting it break through, in fact I think
this is what you're supposed to. I visualize the crown
chakra as the lotus, entirely open, while doing
pranayama. I focus on releasing the energy up and out
of my head, sort of as if I'm a human water fountain.
This helps a lot.

For me, the pressure got so bad that I even had a CT
scan done. Breathing and visualization has gotten it
to a point that if it happpens again, I can get rid of
it in a minute or so.

Please let us know how it goes.

L*,
Athena

1013 From: "obsidian9999" <obsidian9999@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue Jun 7, 2005 2:51pm
Subject: Re: Crown chakra pressure, how to stop it obsidian9999
Offline
Send Email

Hello Margaret,

the AYP culture here is very cautious of, basically, Kundalini
entering the Crown before the Ajna has been awakened. This is based
on the belief that Gopi Krishna and others had very severe problems
because things happened in that order.

There might be something very substantial in this belief, I don't
know, but as a person with a scientific approach I am aware that we
may not have even very precise notions of what is a 'crown' or
an 'ajna' awakening. I don't think the 'opened' and closed are black-
and white, I think they may be matters of degree.

I have had things that might be explained as Ajna or Crown
awakenings, and have experienced only good results--- but these were
not in the context of rising Kundalini however. Therefore I don't
think the risk necessarily extends to the idea of Crown openings per
se. Listen specifically to the cautions --- watch for Kundalini
entering the Crown before the Ajna is awakened. This is the kind
of 'opened Crown chakra' that seems to be problematic. You don't
seem to be describing a kundalini-arising phenomenon so I'm not sure
the caution applies to you.

I don't know what the 'Crown opening' is associated with for you.
For me it's a very peaceful, complete place, where there is only one
Being, where nothing can be added to what is, and where there is no
risk of anything being taken away. It is the point of view from
outside the game of creation, where both sides, the Light and the
Dark, are rightly seen as playing for the same Source. It is free
of all forms of excitement, including emotional or religious.
A 'sutra' that came to me for awakening the Crown, is 'Where the
Game is Gladly Over'.

It is a little boring if anything, which may be why the universe was
created in the first place.

I say that half-joking, but not
joking entirely....

So I don't think an 'opened', or developed, Crown chakra takes you
off the deep end in itself.

Is your experience of the 'crown awakening' anything like this? Or
are you just experienceing a yogic transition, where your brain-
biology is just changing? I had headaches at times, sometimes in
the top of my head, that weren't actually Crown awakenings at all.
I think they were just side-effects of the change in brain function,
and the according requirements in change of blood-supply patterns,
which the blood-vessels had not adjusted to.

One suggestion which can't go wrong: keep balance, and, in
particular, sense of humor. If you are feeling 'God-in-me', share
a lot of private jokes with him/her. Have fun. Do some silly
things. Don't get grave, heavy or solemn.

If you are experiencing some religious growth, but you see God as
someone/something without sense-of-humor, (which could easily happen
if you were brought up in one of the Abrahaamic religions -- Judaism,
Christianity or Islaam) then your experience will take on a 'heavy'
quality which may well cause you headaches, whether literal or
metaphorical.

Blessings,

-D

--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "Margaret" <memeggings@y...> wrote:
> Hi, I'm looking for guidance again. I'm not doing any particular
> meditation but think of God-in-me a lot, and often in my ordinary
> activities I feel sudden God awareness, like a "hello". It
happened
> yesterday and it continued through my busy day and I wanted the
> pressure in my crown chakra to abate and don't know how to do
that. I
> feel there may be a danger if this pressure builds up and breaks
> through. I suppose I'm practising something akin to bakti, but
it's my
> natural condition to feel love for God and I don't want to stop
that
> either. Even now as I write this, the tingling in my crown is
> something I'd just like to be able to stop for a bit. I guess my
main
> concern is that it eventually feels almost painful, and I wonder if
it
> might wreak havoc if it breaks through...who would take care of me
if I
> went "off the deep end" with an opened crown chakra? Got to stop
> writing about it for the pain won't stop. Please advise.
> Margaret

1017 From: Amenta Amenta <sethem131@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed Jun 8, 2005 2:46am
Subject: Re: Re: Crown chakra pressure, how to stop it sethem131
Offline
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Very well put and insight-full

Thanks

--- obsidian9999 <obsidian9999@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
>
> Hello Margaret,
>
> the AYP culture here is very cautious of,
> basically, Kundalini
> entering the Crown before the Ajna has been
> awakened. This is based
> on the belief that Gopi Krishna and others had very
> severe problems
> because things happened in that order.
>
> There might be something very substantial in this
> belief, I don't
> know, but as a person with a scientific approach I
> am aware that we
> may not have even very precise notions of what is a
> 'crown' or
> an 'ajna' awakening. I don't think the 'opened' and
> closed are black-
> and white, I think they may be matters of degree.
>
> I have had things that might be explained as Ajna or
> Crown
> awakenings, and have experienced only good
> results--- but these were
> not in the context of rising Kundalini however.
> Therefore I don't
> think the risk necessarily extends to the idea of
> Crown openings per
> se. Listen specifically to the cautions --- watch
> for Kundalini
> entering the Crown before the Ajna is awakened.
> This is the kind
> of 'opened Crown chakra' that seems to be
> problematic. You don't
> seem to be describing a kundalini-arising phenomenon
> so I'm not sure
> the caution applies to you.
>
> I don't know what the 'Crown opening' is associated
> with for you.
> For me it's a very peaceful, complete place, where
> there is only one
> Being, where nothing can be added to what is, and
> where there is no
> risk of anything being taken away. It is the point
> of view from
> outside the game of creation, where both sides,
> the Light and the
> Dark, are rightly seen as playing for the same
> Source. It is free
> of all forms of excitement, including emotional or
> religious.
> A 'sutra' that came to me for awakening the Crown,
> is 'Where the
> Game is Gladly Over'.
>
> It is a little boring if anything, which may be why
> the universe was
> created in the first place.

I say that
> half-joking, but not
> joking entirely....
>
> So I don't think an 'opened', or developed, Crown
> chakra takes you
> off the deep end in itself.
>
> Is your experience of the 'crown awakening' anything
> like this? Or
> are you just experienceing a yogic transition,
> where your brain-
> biology is just changing? I had headaches at times,
> sometimes in
> the top of my head, that weren't actually Crown
> awakenings at all.
> I think they were just side-effects of the change in
> brain function,
> and the according requirements in change of
> blood-supply patterns,
> which the blood-vessels had not adjusted to.
>
> One suggestion which can't go wrong: keep balance,
> and, in
> particular, sense of humor. If you are feeling
> 'God-in-me', share
> a lot of private jokes with him/her. Have fun. Do
> some silly
> things. Don't get grave, heavy or solemn.
>
> If you are experiencing some religious growth, but
> you see God as
> someone/something without sense-of-humor, (which
> could easily happen
> if you were brought up in one of the Abrahaamic
> religions -- Judaism,
> Christianity or Islaam) then your experience will
> take on a 'heavy'
> quality which may well cause you headaches, whether
> literal or
> metaphorical.
>
> Blessings,
>
> -D
>
>
>
> --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "Margaret"
> <memeggings@y...> wrote:
> > Hi, I'm looking for guidance again. I'm not doing
> any particular
> > meditation but think of God-in-me a lot, and often
> in my ordinary
> > activities I feel sudden God awareness, like a
> "hello". It
> happened
> > yesterday and it continued through my busy day and
> I wanted the
> > pressure in my crown chakra to abate and don't
> know how to do
> that. I
> > feel there may be a danger if this pressure builds
> up and breaks
> > through. I suppose I'm practising something akin
> to bakti, but
> it's my
> > natural condition to feel love for God and I don't
> want to stop
> that
> > either. Even now as I write this, the tingling in
> my crown is
> > something I'd just like to be able to stop for a
> bit. I guess my
> main
> > concern is that it eventually feels almost
> painful, and I wonder if
> it
> > might wreak havoc if it breaks through...who would
> take care of me
> if I
> > went "off the deep end" with an opened crown
> chakra? Got to stop
> > writing about it for the pain won't stop. Please
> advise.
> > Margaret
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

__________________________________________________
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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

1019 From: "quickstudy05" <quickstudy05@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed Jun 8, 2005 8:41am
Subject: Re: Crown chakra pressure, how to stop it quickstudy05
Offline
Send Email

The main AYP lesson on crown opening is 199. It can be found at:

http://www.geocities.com/advancedyogapractices/199

For ways to moderate excessive energy flows and uncomfortable
pressure symptoms, see lesson 69 at:

http://www.geocities.com/advancedyogapractices/69

The AYP lessons prescribe spinal breathing (lesson 41) as one of the
best ways to balance energy excesses occurring in the crown and
elsewhere, while promoting opening of the nervous system at the same
time. Spinal breathing favors opening the spinal nerve via the third
eye route, which is one of the keys to maintaining balanced spiritual
progress throughout the body.

Other lessons on the crown can be found by going to the topic index
and looking up "Crown Opening (avoiding premature)." See:

http://www.geocities.com/advancedyogapractices/TopicIndex

--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "Margaret" <memeggings@y...> wrote:
> Hi, I'm looking for guidance again. I'm not doing any particular
> meditation but think of God-in-me a lot, and often in my ordinary
> activities I feel sudden God awareness, like a "hello". It
happened
> yesterday and it continued through my busy day and I wanted the
> pressure in my crown chakra to abate and don't know how to do
that. I
> feel there may be a danger if this pressure builds up and breaks
> through. I suppose I'm practising something akin to bakti, but
it's my
> natural condition to feel love for God and I don't want to stop
that
> either. Even now as I write this, the tingling in my crown is
> something I'd just like to be able to stop for a bit. I guess my
main
> concern is that it eventually feels almost painful, and I wonder if
it
> might wreak havoc if it breaks through...who would take care of me
if I
> went "off the deep end" with an opened crown chakra? Got to stop
> writing about it for the pain won't stop. Please advise.
> Margaret

1021 From: "Athena" <athena5250@rogers.com>
Date: Wed Jun 8, 2005 10:36am
Subject: RE: Re: Crown chakra pressure, how to stop it soror_x2
Offline
Send Email

Hello Margaret and others,

Please ignore my email from yesterday. Although I read it a while ago,
re-reading the lessons posted by quickstudy05 reminded me of things I had
forgotten.

Ignore my advice! :-)

Best,

Athena

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

1022 From: "obsidian9999" <obsidian9999@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu Jun 9, 2005 1:38pm
Subject: Re: Crown chakra pressure, how to stop it obsidian9999
Offline
Send Email

Thanks, 05, for giving us these.

I have come to understand, from reading more carefully, that the
caution from Yogani on awakening the Crown Chakra before the Ajna is
pretty general, and not just restricted to Kundalini rising.

My own experience of (partial) crown awakening was perfectly stable,
but I DID have Ajna awakening significantly before it. So the Ajna
awakening could have created all the stability that served the Crown
awakening when it happened.

This theory, that the Ajna must be awakened and developed first,
else the instabilities occur, is very interesting. I am wondering
if anyone saw it anywhere else other than at AYP?

-D

--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "quickstudy05" <quickstudy05@y...>
wrote:
> The main AYP lesson on crown opening is 199. It can be found at:
>
> http://www.geocities.com/advancedyogapractices/199
>
> For ways to moderate excessive energy flows and uncomfortable
> pressure symptoms, see lesson 69 at:
>
> http://www.geocities.com/advancedyogapractices/69
>
> The AYP lessons prescribe spinal breathing (lesson 41) as one of
the
> best ways to balance energy excesses occurring in the crown and
> elsewhere, while promoting opening of the nervous system at the
same
> time. Spinal breathing favors opening the spinal nerve via the
third
> eye route, which is one of the keys to maintaining balanced
spiritual
> progress throughout the body.
>
> Other lessons on the crown can be found by going to the topic index
> and looking up "Crown Opening (avoiding premature)." See:
>
> http://www.geocities.com/advancedyogapractices/TopicIndex
>
>
>
> --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "Margaret" <memeggings@y...> wrote:
> > Hi, I'm looking for guidance again. I'm not doing any particular
> > meditation but think of God-in-me a lot, and often in my ordinary
> > activities I feel sudden God awareness, like a "hello". It
> happened
> > yesterday and it continued through my busy day and I wanted the
> > pressure in my crown chakra to abate and don't know how to do
> that. I
> > feel there may be a danger if this pressure builds up and breaks
> > through. I suppose I'm practising something akin to bakti, but
> it's my
> > natural condition to feel love for God and I don't want to stop
> that
> > either. Even now as I write this, the tingling in my crown is
> > something I'd just like to be able to stop for a bit. I guess my
> main
> > concern is that it eventually feels almost painful, and I wonder
if
> it
> > might wreak havoc if it breaks through...who would take care of
me
> if I
> > went "off the deep end" with an opened crown chakra? Got to stop
> > writing about it for the pain won't stop. Please advise.
> > Margaret

1026 From: "Dave Moore" <riptiz@hotmail.com>
Date: Sun Jun 12, 2005 11:16am
Subject: Re: Crown chakra pressure, how to stop it riptiz
Offline
Send Email

Hi,
The idea of opening the chakras in order is simply to allow all
blockages to clear before the rise of Kundalini.If the K rises before
this time then any obstructions it meets can cause a ricochet of the
energies causing problems much as what happens in a spontaneous
awakening.Using the practice of meditation a complete balancing of the
chakras is achieved along with clearing of the nadis leading to a safe
rise.
L&L
dave

1024 From: Alison Sayer-Jones <prurple@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri Jun 10, 2005 8:23pm
Subject: Re: Crown chakra pressure, how to stop it prurple
Offline
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This theory, that the Ajna must be awakened and developed first,
else the instabilities occur, is very interesting. I am wondering
if anyone saw it anywhere else other than at AYP?

-D

Hi,

I did a bit of reading and research a few years back and read about this concept a number of times. Enough for me to get the impression it was a fairly common view. Maybe it's not comon tho' and it just happened to be what I was coming across? Funny how such things work out.

Unfortunately my books and so on are in storage at the moment and I can't reference this for you, but I recall reading about it in Tantra and Kundalini books and writings amongst others.

Al

--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "quickstudy05"
wrote:
> The main AYP lesson on crown opening is 199. It can be found at:
>
> http://www.geocities.com/advancedyogapractices/199
>
> For ways to moderate excessive energy flows and uncomfortable
> pressure symptoms, see lesson 69 at:
>
> http://www.geocities.com/advancedyogapractices/69
>
> The AYP lessons prescribe spinal breathing (lesson 41) as one of
the
> best ways to balance energy excesses occurring in the crown and
> elsewhere, while promoting opening of the nervous system at the
same
> time. Spinal breathing favors opening the spinal nerve via the
third
> eye route, which is one of the keys to maintaining balanced
spiritual
> progress throughout the body.
>
> Other lessons on the crown can be found by going to the topic index
> and looking up "Crown Opening (avoiding premature)." See:
>
> http://www.geocities.com/advancedyogapractices/TopicIndex
>
>
>
> --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "Margaret" wrote:
> > Hi, I'm looking for guidance again. I'm not doing any particular
> > meditation but think of God-in-me a lot, and often in my ordinary
> > activities I feel sudden God awareness, like a "hello". It
> happened
> > yesterday and it continued through my busy day and I wanted the
> > pressure in my crown chakra to abate and don't know how to do
> that. I
> > feel there may be a danger if this pressure builds up and breaks
> > through. I suppose I'm practising something akin to bakti, but
> it's my
> > natural condition to feel love for God and I don't want to stop
> that
> > either. Even now as I write this, the tingling in my crown is
> > something I'd just like to be able to stop for a bit. I guess my
> main
> > concern is that it eventually feels almost painful, and I wonder
if
> it
> > might wreak havoc if it breaks through...who would take care of
me
> if I
> > went "off the deep end" with an opened crown chakra? Got to stop
> > writing about it for the pain won't stop. Please advise.
> > Margaret

________________________________________________________________________
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1025 From: "obsidian9999" <obsidian9999@yahoo.com>
Date: Sat Jun 11, 2005 3:06pm
Subject: Re: Crown chakra pressure, how to stop it obsidian9999
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Hello Alison,

Thanks. I asked Yogani about it and he said it is common. I
couldn't find out much about it on the web though, at least not on
a short search. I think I had heard that the Ajna 'should' be
awakened first, but had not heard that not doing so is the cause of
so many of those problematic kundalini symptoms.

-D

--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, Alison Sayer-Jones <prurple@y...>
wrote:
> This theory, that the Ajna must be awakened and developed first,
> else the instabilities occur, is very interesting. I am wondering
> if anyone saw it anywhere else other than at AYP?
>
> -D
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I did a bit of reading and research a few years back and read
about this concept a number of times. Enough for me to get the
impression it was a fairly common view. Maybe it's not comon tho'
and it just happened to be what I was coming across? Funny how
such things work out.

> Unfortunately my books and so on are in storage at the moment and
I can't reference this for you, but I recall reading about it in
Tantra and Kundalini books and writings amongst others.
>
> Al
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "quickstudy05"
> wrote:
> > The main AYP lesson on crown opening is 199. It can be found at:
> >
> > http://www.geocities.com/advancedyogapractices/199
> >
> > For ways to moderate excessive energy flows and uncomfortable
> > pressure symptoms, see lesson 69 at:
> >
> > http://www.geocities.com/advancedyogapractices/69
> >
> > The AYP lessons prescribe spinal breathing (lesson 41) as one of
> the
> > best ways to balance energy excesses occurring in the crown and
> > elsewhere, while promoting opening of the nervous system at the
> same
> > time. Spinal breathing favors opening the spinal nerve via the
> third
> > eye route, which is one of the keys to maintaining balanced
> spiritual
> > progress throughout the body.
> >
> > Other lessons on the crown can be found by going to the topic
index
> > and looking up "Crown Opening (avoiding premature)." See:
> >
> > http://www.geocities.com/advancedyogapractices/TopicIndex
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "Margaret" wrote:
> > > Hi, I'm looking for guidance again. I'm not doing any
particular
> > > meditation but think of God-in-me a lot, and often in my
ordinary
> > > activities I feel sudden God awareness, like a "hello". It
> > happened
> > > yesterday and it continued through my busy day and I wanted
the
> > > pressure in my crown chakra to abate and don't know how to do
> > that. I
> > > feel there may be a danger if this pressure builds up and
breaks
> > > through. I suppose I'm practising something akin to bakti, but
> > it's my
> > > natural condition to feel love for God and I don't want to
stop
> > that
> > > either. Even now as I write this, the tingling in my crown is
> > > something I'd just like to be able to stop for a bit. I guess
my
> > main
> > > concern is that it eventually feels almost painful, and I
wonder
> if
> > it
> > > might wreak havoc if it breaks through...who would take care
of
> me
> > if I
> > > went "off the deep end" with an opened crown chakra? Got to
stop
> > > writing about it for the pain won't stop. Please advise.
> > > Margaret
>

Yahoo AYP Forum Archive Threads / Tired of the darkness during meditation

« Last post by AYPforum on July 08, 2005, 03:34:31 AM »

1007 From: shanti <shanti@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon Jun 6, 2005 2:15pm
Subject: Tired of the darkness during meditation..... shanti
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I have been doing meditaion for 3 years now. I stumbled upon this web site a month back and it gave me answers to many of my questions. If somebody could guide me. I have made a lot of progress in meditation, however I seem to be stuck now. I don't feel anything different anymore. Its just darkness I see in my third eye. I am so tired of this. After listening to all the wonderful things that have happened to all the people, I get even more frustrated. I am at a point where I can feel a tingling sensation in my forehead, I feel the energy flow through me... however I am tired of the darkness... can somebody help me...

---------------------------------
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1008 From: "obsidian9999" <obsidian9999@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon Jun 6, 2005 4:55pm
Subject: Re: Tired of the darkness during meditation..... obsidian9999
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Hello Shanti (?),

a questions first:

. what kind of meditation are you doing? Are you talking about
mantra-yoga (of the kind in lesson 13) or any of the various spinal
breathing/shambhavi practices etc (which are not classified
as 'meditation' in AYP) ?

>> After listening to all the wonderful things that have happened to
all the people, I get even more frustrated.

A comment or two: notable experiences *during meditation* are not
valued highly on this path; what is valued is the contribution that
meditation makes to your life. If someone is seeing bright lights
and you are not, look on it as someone having indigestion, or a
headache and poor you are not.

You spoke of seeing darkness in your third eye. What does this mean
and what does it matter? I almost always see absolutely nothing
whatsoever in my third eye. When I see something in my third eye
during meditation I am not particularly happy about it, especially
if it is distracting. In fact, if I see bright lights and things
(which happens rarely now thankfully) I have to work on _not_getting
_annoyed_ that it is happening.

Tell me more about what seeing darkness in your third eye means to
you. Perhaps you are making a problem about nothing? Or perhaps you
have more to say about what it means....

For all I know, you are actually doing very well in your meditation
practice.

--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, shanti <shanti@y...>
wrote:
> I have been doing meditaion for 3 years now. I stumbled upon this
web site a month back and it gave me answers to many of my questions.
If somebody could guide me. I have made a lot of progress in
meditation, however I seem to be stuck now. I don't feel anything
different anymore. Its just darkness I see in my third eye. I am so
tired of this. After listening to all the wonderful things that have
happened to all the people, I get even more frustrated. I am at a
point where I can feel a tingling sensation in my forehead, I feel
the energy flow through me... however I am tired of the darkness...
can somebody help me...
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Discover Yahoo!
> Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing & more. Check it out!
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

1009 From: "shanti" <shanti@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon Jun 6, 2005 8:10pm
Subject: Re: Tired of the darkness during meditation..... shanti
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I have in the course 5 years, practiced 2 kinds of meditations..
Silva's mind control, TM. Both of these helped get my mind calm. I
had never heard of the 3rd eye meditation. About 5 months ago, I was
tired of just closing my eyes and thinking of nothing. That is when,
I read the book Autobiography of an Yogi. That book touched me and I
had to find out more about "self realization". I started reading
about meditation, followed some guided meditation tapes. About 3
months ago, I could focus my mind on the 3rd eye and repeat my
mantra. I felt, this electricity flowing through me, I could feel my
third eye tingle. Then about a month ago I found this site. It was
exactly what I was looking for. Yogini, had answers to all my
questions.. about the sexual feelings, and the tingling in my
forehead. However, 3 months ago I felt so many emotions and changes,
I could feel something was happening. However now for about a month,
I don't feel any progress. All the people talk to Yogini and tell
about their wonderful experiences. How they saw light, how they could
feel the Kundalini rise up their spine, All I see is "blank".
Nothing... there are times I try to concentrate to see if I can see
anything... but no... nothing, It gets so hard to meditate
on "nothing". I have been told to visualize something like "OM".. I
am terrible at visualizing... so there too I have no luck. As a
result, after about 10 minutes my mind starts wandering.. I bring it
back...but I wish I could focus longer. Is there anything you can
tell me to do to make me stay focused a little longer. I love to
meditate, its never a chore for me, but I seem to be getting
frustrated these days.
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "obsidian9999" <obsidian9999@y...>
wrote:
>
> Hello Shanti (?),
>
> a questions first:
>
> . what kind of meditation are you doing? Are you talking about
> mantra-yoga (of the kind in lesson 13) or any of the various spinal
> breathing/shambhavi practices etc (which are not classified
> as 'meditation' in AYP) ?
>
> >> After listening to all the wonderful things that have happened
to
> all the people, I get even more frustrated.
>
> A comment or two: notable experiences *during meditation* are not
> valued highly on this path; what is valued is the contribution
that
> meditation makes to your life. If someone is seeing bright lights
> and you are not, look on it as someone having indigestion, or a
> headache and poor you are not.

>
> You spoke of seeing darkness in your third eye. What does this
mean
> and what does it matter? I almost always see absolutely nothing
> whatsoever in my third eye. When I see something in my third eye
> during meditation I am not particularly happy about it, especially
> if it is distracting. In fact, if I see bright lights and things
> (which happens rarely now thankfully) I have to work on _not_getting
> _annoyed_ that it is happening.
>
> Tell me more about what seeing darkness in your third eye means to
> you. Perhaps you are making a problem about nothing? Or perhaps
you
> have more to say about what it means....
>
> For all I know, you are actually doing very well in your
meditation
> practice.
>
>
>
>
> --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, shanti <shanti@y...>
> wrote:
> > I have been doing meditaion for 3 years now. I stumbled upon this
> web site a month back and it gave me answers to many of my
questions.
> If somebody could guide me. I have made a lot of progress in
> meditation, however I seem to be stuck now. I don't feel anything
> different anymore. Its just darkness I see in my third eye. I am so
> tired of this. After listening to all the wonderful things that
have
> happened to all the people, I get even more frustrated. I am at a
> point where I can feel a tingling sensation in my forehead, I feel
> the energy flow through me... however I am tired of the darkness...
> can somebody help me...
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Discover Yahoo!
> > Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing & more. Check it out!
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

1014 From: "Richard" <richardchamberlin14@hotmail.com>
Date: Tue Jun 7, 2005 3:56pm
Subject: Re: Tired of the darkness during meditation..... azaz932001
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--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "shanti" <shanti@y...>
wrote:
> I have in the course 5 years, practiced 2 kinds of meditations..
> Silva's mind control, TM. Both of these helped get my mind calm. I
> had never heard of the 3rd eye meditation. About 5 months ago, I
was
> tired of just closing my eyes and thinking of nothing. That is
when,
> I read the book Autobiography of an Yogi. That book touched me and
I
> had to find out more about "self realization". I started reading
> about meditation, followed some guided meditation tapes. About 3
> months ago, I could focus my mind on the 3rd eye and repeat my
> mantra. I felt, this electricity flowing through me, I could feel
my
> third eye tingle. Then about a month ago I found this site.

Hello there
You don't say if you have fixed on AYP as a system or if you are just
using it to supplement other practices.
If you are just dipping in so to speak it could cause some confusion.
I for one can thoroughly recommend using AYP as a stand alone
practice,
I have been where you are now. The trouble with using mixed practices
such as guided meditation or path working and mind control methods is
that they fix you in the habit of trying to concentrate. The results
produced by this sort of concentration tend to be transitory the
same as those produced by drugs. I know how you feel, its frustrating
to think you have got somewhere only to lose it and not be able to
get back there again.

Have a look at the main lessons on the AYP main web site and think
about following them step by step it really does work and from my
experience I think it will be the answer to your problem.

Blessings R.C.

1010 From: LucidOne <lucidinterval1@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon Jun 6, 2005 9:23pm
Subject: Re: Tired of the darkness during meditation..... lucidinterval1
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--- shweshantirtrshantioo.com> wrote:

I seem to be stuck now. I don't
> feel anything different anymore. Its just darkness I
> see in my third eye. I am so tired of this.

Realistically, you do not want to expect anything. I
find that the more that I just stay with the mantra,
the deeper concentration I can achieve. If you are
looking for lights or colors or have any expectation,
you are disrupting your real meditation. You will not
go deeper. Try to think of your meditation as your
gift back to God. It is like giving your child a
birthday present. You are not looking to get back a
hug or kiss. You are giving from your heart with no
return expectation. Your meditations will get deeper.
The devil is having his way with you. This path is
true. Only the strong willed will perspersevereardless
of the immediate rewards. Stay with it if you feel in
your heart that it is a worthy path.
With Peace,
Paul

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1015 From: "Melissa" <mm7810@gmail.com>
Date: Tue Jun 7, 2005 9:08pm
Subject: Re: Tired of the darkness during meditation..... mm78102002
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Hello Paul -

I just wanted to butt in here and say that I love you answer below!
It is perfect!

Namaste,

Melissa

--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, LucidOne <lucidinterval1@y...>
wrote:

> Realistically, you do not want to expect anything. I
> find that the more that I just stay with the mantra,
> the deeper concentration I can achieve. If you are
> looking for lights or colors or have any expectation,
> you are disrupting your real meditation. You will not
> go deeper. Try to think of your meditation as your
> gift back to God. It is like giving your child a
> birthday present. You are not looking to get back a
> hug or kiss. You are giving from your heart with no
> return expectation. Your meditations will get deeper.
> The devil is having his way with you. This path is
> true. Only the strong willed will perspersevereardless
> of the immediate rewards. Stay with it if you feel in
> your heart that it is a worthy path.
> With Peace,
> Paul
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com

1016 From: SHANTA SAWH <shantasawh@yahoo.ca>
Date: Tue Jun 7, 2005 10:47pm
Subject: Re: Tired of the darkness during meditation..... shantasawh
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Hi Shanti,
I read your email and I do understand your dilema.
My question is why did you choose to do meditation and what do you want to achieve by doing it?
Any ways now that you are into meditation just enjoy doing the practice, do not stop for whatever may be the reason.
Never mind what it is you are seeing , darkness or light or a saint , keep going.
Do not get worked up about whatever is happenning or not happenning when you sit to do your practice. This is the secret. By developing this habit of not worryiny about whether you are making progress or not , or having this experience or no experience you will gain everything.
And as our respectful teacher says to us relax and take one day at a time..
warm regards,
Shanta

shanti <shanti@yahoo.com> wrote:
I have been doing meditaion for 3 years now. I stumbled upon this web site a month back and it gave me answers to many of my questions. If somebody could guide me. I have made a lot of progress in meditation, however I seem to be stuck now. I don't feel anything different anymore. Its just darkness I see in my third eye. I am so tired of this. After listening to all the wonderful things that have happened to all the people, I get even more frustrated. I am at a point where I can feel a tingling sensation in my forehead, I feel the energy flow through me... however I am tired of the darkness... can somebody help me...

---------------------------------
Discover Yahoo!
Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing & more. Check it out!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

For the AYP Lessons and Books, go to:
http://www.geocities.com/advancedyogapractices --
To change your email delivery to "daily digest," send a blank email to:
AYPforum-digest@yahoogroups.com --
To stop email delivery and use "web viewing only," send a blank email to:
AYPforum-nomail@yahoogroups.com --
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Yahoo! Groups Links

Shanta Sawh
45 Halder Crescent,
Markham, Ontario L3R 7E9
Phone: (905) 415-8815
Cell phone:416-716-4910
Email: shantasawh@yahoo.ca

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1020 From: "shanti" <shanti@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed Jun 8, 2005 9:06am
Subject: Re: Tired of the darkness during meditation..... shanti
Send IM
Send Email

Thank you all for such wonderful advice. So much love in what you all
say. Richard, you are right, all the meditation processes may have me
mixed up. I have been doing what you asked me to do, going through
one lesson at a time in the main lesson section on the AYP main web
site. Thank you for your blessings. Paul I loved what you said. It is
true, I should not expect anything.. just enjoy the feeling of peace
and do it as an offering of thanks to God. Thank you. This morning,
that is what I did. Shanta, thank you for your kind words. I will
continue practicing my meditation. It is one thing that gives me pure
joy. I just get frustrated some times. These days all I want to all
day is sit and meditate. However that is not possible. Did anybody
ever get the feeling that are getting lazy or disinterested in their
day to day routine?
I guess knowing that there are other people who have gone through the
same frustrations and I am not alone, helps.
thank you all.

> Hi Shanti,
> I read your email and I do understand your dilema.
> My question is why did you choose to do meditation and what do you
want to achieve by doing it?
> Any ways now that you are into meditation just enjoy doing the
practice, do not stop for whatever may be the reason.
> Never mind what it is you are seeing , darkness or light or a
saint , keep going.
> Do not get worked up about whatever is happenning or not
happenning when you sit to do your practice. This is the secret. By
developing this habit of not worryiny about whether you are making
progress or not , or having this experience or no experience you will
gain everything.
> And as our respectful teacher says to us relax and take one
day at a time..
> warm regards,
> Shanta

100

Yahoo AYP Forum Archive Threads / Kundalini arousal spurred by activation of tail-mo

« Last post by AYPforum on July 08, 2005, 03:33:36 AM »

1006 From: "obsidian9999" <obsidian9999@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri Jun 3, 2005 8:51pm
Subject: Kundalini arousal spurred by activation of tail-moving system ? obsidian9999
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Here's a scientific speculation some might consider crazy, but I'm
actually serious and don't think it's as crazy as it seems on first
sight. I've thought of this before, but I am spurred again by
Greg's mention of the tail.

We obviously had tails in earlier stages of our evolution. The
physical tails have disappeared.

There would have been a tail-moving system in the brain. Elaborate
tail-moving was needed, presumably, by our more distant ancestors.

There is no reason to believe that this tail-moving system has
disappeared entirely. It could be hanging around, like an
appendix, a vestigial tail-moving system in the brain, even though
the related tail and muscles have disappeared from the body.

Activation of this system, however it would or could be done,
could be related to kundalini awakening. It could possibly spur
kundalini awakening. Lets face it kundalini awakening is related to
activating all sorts of stuff Down There in general.

Why is the devil depicted with a tail? The animal part of humankind?

Any comments, anyone?