abstentions and purification

[x.j.]

I wanted to mention a purification routine I have found to be spiritually very useful. This is based on one of my favorite books, entitled "A Systematic Course In The Ancient Tantric Techniques of Yoga and Kriya" by Swami Satyananda Saraswati.  Incidentally, it has been said that if you are going to have one definitive book on all of Yoga, this is the book.  Anyway, this book discusses diet, fasting and purificational practices, and the rationale for purifying one's diet, especially of meat and the many rationales for vegetarianism, amongst everything else about all aspects of yoga. From this book I have adapted a practice that I enjoy every Friday, the day that works out the best from my schedule.  It goes like this: My last meal is the evening meal on Thursday night. Then starting Friday, I only take in clear liquids until Saturday evening, when I resume food. On Friday afternoon, (since I only work in the morning on Fridays), I drink 1.5 ounces of a saline laxative (generic Fleets Phosphosoda) diluted by about 6 big glasses of apple juice taken quickly so as not to taste this dishwater like substance, and then, subsequently green tea. This will result in cleansing of the bowel over several hours. Then I stay with juices, tea, water, until Saturday night when I resume food.  This program is totally compatible with/the same as, the text on yogic practices mentioned above.  This program is much more effective than mere fasting, because utilizing the saline cathartic cleans out the bowel very gently (and is non-irritative to the intestines), and frees up all the pranic energy that would otherwise be needed for metabolic processes of both stomach and colon and everything in between.  It wakes up Mother Kundalini like the sleeping Giant that She is, at Muladhara especially, and is a very remarkable practice in my weekly yogic practices. This allows a much more effective meditative practice during this period of time that carries over the rest of the week.  One caveat though: I have been frighened by the central nervous system effect of just a water fast, and probably for good reason.  The brain functions on pure glucose(sugar).  This is absorbed into the brain via the blood stream.  Our brain really requires glucose or sugar to function.  But clear liquids as mentioned above, provides the brain with the glucose it would need.  I feel this is very important,...in order not to harm oneself.  I would also recommend the above book very highly to anyone interested in yoga... as we all are here at AYP.
I don't need to elaborate on the spiritual advantages of purificational practices as far as a yogic practice goes, but I must add that this practice enlightens our awareness of our (habitual and instinctual) relationship to food, and provides an intuitive,... compassionate inkling of the vast suffering of millions of children worldwide who hunger...and they hunger not just on Fridays either.  It is mind blowing the suffering of the hungry and the poor worldwide. And for us just to feel a little hungry to know what that even feels like, which is so foreign to us in the United States of America. Feel one with them. My love to you all at AYP.
May all beings be free of suffering...

[Steve]

Hi John,

You are probably not doing anything in a measure that could harm your kidneys but it might be worth while if you check some of the literature out there on generic Fleets Phosphosoda such as the link below:

https://www.phosphosodalawyers.com/PhosphoSodaLawyers.html

Some of this may be in reference to the fluid one drinks before a colonoscopy to cleanse the colon.  However, the long term use of the product might have some effects too.  As I said, I do not know much more on this just wanted to make you aware of some additional information on your choice of laxative for the practice you described.

You can google with the search criteria - fleet phosphosoda kidney renal failure - to find alot of additonal information.

I really appreciate all that you are sharing in your various posts and your interaction with the forum.  Thanks much.

Steve

[x.j.]

Hi Steve,
Thanks for your information on Fleets Phosphosoda related kidney disease.  Speaking as a family doctor myself, I believe the incidence of any problems from this over the counter product is really quite minimal, but like the article points out, if one is taking certain blood pressure medications, especially ones causing relative dehydration like diuretics(HCTZ), ACE agents(lisinopril,etc), omits plentiful fluids after use, is of advanced age, or who has a history of renal failure in the past, this would be contraindicated. I assume most of us get a periodic chemistry screen blood test (which checks kidney function) along with serum cholesterol, when they see their doctor.  However, I think this is a safe practice overall.  Thanks for your input. I have been overly vociferous on this website. Somebody ought to say "back off John".
And my right handed Tantric practices of mantra, trataka, pranayama, devotional chanting, etc. are somewhat at odds with the left handed Tantra direction of sexual practices, to which AYP seems to lean. So I should leave you guys alone.
I've just about spoken my mind on a few practices that have worked for me, but have been shall we say overly enthusiastic about themm...

[Steve]

Hi John,

Your input is great.  Please continue.  My comment was in no way meant to diminish your future contributions.  They are very informative and inspiring to many.  Your enthusiasm is wonderful.  I and many others really appreciate the posts you are making.

I was not aware that you were a doctor so for sure in this particular area you have much more detailed knowledge than myself.  However, I did feel it important to mention because many folks from around the world read these discussions that may not have your background or get regular medical checkups.  

At one point, I myself used the product for cleansing on a fairly regular basis (more often than you) over a long term of years, and though I did not have medical tests to confirm it I noticed a distinct weakening of my kidney and adrenal functions.  I am very sensitive energetically and can track the meridian function in my body pretty well.  I also confirmed it through kinsioeology.  At the time I did not know what the cause of it was.  Only later after reading some literature on Fleets Phosphosoda and eliminating its use did I make the cause and effect connection.  Now my use was long term and more often than yours.  The physiology and health habits of each of us varies and I may have had other contributing factors over the years that could have made me more predisposed to experience this weakening effect.  When I did discontinue its use, it helped me.  

By noting my experience, folks who read this discussion can at least be aware that if they use the product regularly and notice some lower back pain, lower energy levels or fatigue that there might be a connection.  Having said that, I  feel any needed note of this is now included in the overall discussion.  It will  be there along with contributions made by others regarding the main thrust of your post which I find very informative and interesting.

Steve

[x.j.]

Hey Steve, Another idea for you is that the book I mentioned above in the original post,talks about a plain salt water solution recipe. Also at the dosage mentioned of phosphosoda, of 1.5 ounces(45 ml.) followed with lots of apple juice and other juices and tea with honey if preferred, and if done just a couple times a month, certainly will do no harm to the average yogic practitioner.  You might at least consider a clear juice fast for a couple days as a little spiritual experiment.  Isn't that the way we learn about our human condition, just like Wilder in the novel?
Our relationship to food is so totally irrational, habitual and  instinctual, based in fear of starvation or something, that it behooves us to do a little experiment and see if there isn't a lesson to be learned.  The first time I did a juice fast for a couple days on a Vipassana retreat, I remember the tears were literally running down my cheeks over the little bowl of oatmeal that was my first meal afterwards. I was so touched by the incredible experience of hunger, so appreciative of the relatively tiny bowl of oatmeat, so touched by all the people worldwide that are hungry every day. It was very touching, not even considering the kundalini effects, and how the Lord opened my heart that day...

[x.j.]

Hi Steve,
Thanks for relating your experiences. I think you and I were submitting our posts simultaneously and as a result our responses to each others' notes are a little out of sequence and confusing in terms of context of our replies.  I appreciate very much your account of events in your life regarding these issues and  how these are still painful memories of your serious illness. It sounds like the medical profession failed you in not diagnosing your intestinal parasites in a prompt fashion, whatever parasite it was.
And how you found spiritual sustenance in surrender.. and then healing. These are mysteries how the course of events of our lives unfold. Thanks for relating these things Steve.
John C
 

[Steve]

Hi John,

Please excuse the deletion.  No reflection on you.  BTW, I am not angry or upset with the medical profession.  It is true that they did not diagnose things properly.  However, I realize it was not on purpose or of evil intent.  Look at the eventual outcome.  The course of events provided the background for some of the biggest growth in my life.  Not only did I directly learn alot about my body and healthful living but more importantly it taught me one of the deepest lessons of surrender that still benefits me today.  I am extremely grateful for the outcome of the experience.  There are memories but the temporary pain of the actual experience was cleared long ago by gratitude and blessings of Divine Source.

Steve

[yogani]

quote:Originally posted by John C

 Another idea for you is that the book I mentioned above in the original post, talks about a plain salt water solution recipe.

Hi John:

What you mention above (plain saline solution) is what is suggested for intestinal wash in the Diet, Shakarmas and Amaroli (DSA) book. And more than once or twice per month for intestinal wash would be considered very frequent, with potential diminishing returns due to the temporary depletion of natural biochemicals in the body that occurs each time the procedure is done, with some recovery time being necessary.

A less invasive approach to GI tract cleansing is basti (colon cleansing enema) which can be done as often as daily for months on end without negative effects, as inclined by the call of emerging ecstatic conductivity (kundalini). Basti is not as complete a cleanse as intestinal wash, but is much less taxing on the body.

A balanced "self-paced" approach is what is suggested in the book, using shatkarmas (cleansing techniques) during times when the neurobiology is calling for them, which for most is "middle stage" in the process of human spiritual transformation -- during the rise and stabilization of ecstatic conductivity. Of course, this is a spiritual point of view. These methods can also be undertaken for health reasons, which could include factors other than supporting the biochemistry of ecstatic conductivity/kundalini in the GI tract.  

This is also the approach to diet in the DSA book -- learning to listen and respond to what the body is calling for, which can vary over time as our practices and spiritual development advance.

The book also covers fasting, ayurvedic diet considerations for helping stabilize kundalini imbalances, other shatkarmas, and, of course, amaroli, which helps open more refined functioning in the neurobiology for sustaining both abiding inner silence and the flow of ecstatic energy.

All the best!

The guru is in you.

[Christi]

Hi John,

 

quote:And my right handed Tantric practices of mantra, trataka, pranayama, devotional chanting, etc. are somewhat at odds with the left handed Tantra direction of sexual practices, to which AYP seems to lean. So I should leave you guys alone.

Personally I wouldn't say that AYP was mainly left handed tantra, or even that it leads that way. If anything, most of the core practices are right handed tantra ...asanas, pranayama, mantra meditation, samyama, sivasana, with karma yoga and jnyana yoga added on. Only a few of the practices would really offend a catholic right handed yogi . Yogani even says in the main lessons that the tantric practices (meaning left handed tantra) are the only practices which we eventually transcend. So if anything, AYP leads towards right handed tantra as we evolve.
So no need to worry about bothering anyone! Personally I love your posts and find them very informative. And I find them very relevant to what we are doing here.

Just one question... you mentioned negative effects from pure water fasts... how long did you fast for and what were the effects?


Christi

[x.j.]

In answer to Christi's question regarding a clear water fast---  I just feel personally, that is kind of severe on the brain, which I understand needs glucose for normal functioning. As to your question regarding the length of juice fasts, I often go for two and a half days on liquids like apple juice and tea/honey several times a month. It's interesting to keep looking at that habitual instinctual behavior of eating, stand back and look at that a little periodically, just like we explore any habit to see if we've been taken prisoner of that behavior somehow, and to some extent. And to ask ourselves if we want to be free, and at what price.  And what price do we pay for habits, spiritually speaking.  Are there samskaras that need accounting for?
And ask why we eat, because we are so rarely really hungry in this culture(look around at us and our rounded bodies in the supermarkets of the USA),  and ask why we eat what we eat, and ask why we eat when we eat.  Yogis... want to be free,...from the imprisonment of non-thinking behaviors. And what are the other instinctual behaviors, and lets investigate those too.  The fear of death, the urge for sex, being opinionated, and so on. What are these instincts all about?  Are they obsolete?  Can we be set free?

As to the comments above regarding dangers of phosphosoda saline laxative ingestion, even though the risk of nephrocalcinosis is theoretical, rare,  and a matter of hereditary predisposition, and the extent to which we use such a product, nevertheless, I have thought about it,.. I appreciate the help and will cease that for now on. thanks for the advice. Good thing I brought it up.

[Babaly]

Hi John,

Thanks for your original share on this thread. I too love "A Systematic Course In The Ancient Tantric Techniques of Yoga and Kriya" by Swami Satyananda Saraswati. It is one of my favorite books that I follow. I have been doing the saline cleanses on and off for about 8 months or so and find them very helpful. I had a bad bronchitis last spring and took antibiotics :-( and did a week on the saline basti and some citrus etc., to clean out my body of all the medications and felt much cleaner at the end of it. It's a great practice to do once a week.

Anyway, welcome to AYP!

Love and light,
Babaly[]

quote:Originally posted by John C

I wanted to mention a purification routine I have found to be spiritually very useful. This is based on one of my favorite books, entitled "A Systematic Course In The Ancient Tantric Techniques of Yoga and Kriya" by Swami Satyananda Saraswati.  Incidentally, it has been said that if you are going to have one definitive book on all of Yoga, this is the book.  Anyway, this book discusses diet, fasting and purificational practices, and the rationale for purifying one's diet, especially of meat and the many rationales for vegetarianism, amongst everything else about all aspects of yoga. From this book I have adapted a practice that I enjoy every Friday, the day that works out the best from my schedule.  It goes like this: My last meal is the evening meal on Thursday night. Then starting Friday, I only take in clear liquids until Saturday evening, when I resume food. On Friday afternoon, (since I only work in the morning on Fridays), I drink 1.5 ounces of a saline laxative (generic Fleets Phosphosoda) diluted by about 6 big glasses of apple juice taken quickly so as not to taste this dishwater like substance, and then, subsequently green tea. This will result in cleansing of the bowel over several hours. Then I stay with juices, tea, water, until Saturday night when I resume food.  This program is totally compatible with/the same as, the text on yogic practices mentioned above.  This program is much more effective than mere fasting, because utilizing the saline cathartic cleans out the bowel very gently (and is non-irritative to the intestines), and frees up all the pranic energy that would otherwise be needed for metabolic processes of both stomach and colon and everything in between.  It wakes up Mother Kundalini like the sleeping Giant that She is, at Muladhara especially, and is a very remarkable practice in my weekly yogic practices. This allows a much more effective meditative practice during this period of time that carries over the rest of the week.  One caveat though: I have been frighened by the central nervous system effect of just a water fast, and probably for good reason.  The brain functions on pure glucose(sugar).  This is absorbed into the brain via the blood stream.  Our brain really requires glucose or sugar to function.  But clear liquids as mentioned above, provides the brain with the glucose it would need.  I feel this is very important,...in order not to harm oneself.  I would also recommend the above book very highly to anyone interested in yoga... as we all are here at AYP.
I don't need to elaborate on the spiritual advantages of purificational practices as far as a yogic practice goes, but I must add that this practice enlightens our awareness of our (habitual and instinctual) relationship to food, and provides an intuitive,... compassionate inkling of the vast suffering of millions of children worldwide who hunger...and they hunger not just on Fridays either.  It is mind blowing the suffering of the hungry and the poor worldwide. And for us just to feel a little hungry to know what that even feels like, which is so foreign to us in the United States of America. Feel one with them. My love to you all at AYP.
May all beings be free of suffering...

[LittleTurtle]

May I suggest that weekly flushes of this sort can be way over doing it. You can mess up your electrolytes for one thing, and you don't want to do that. The heart doesn't like it.

[Babaly]

Thanks Turtle,

You are right that when there is a lot of water drank at one time the electrolytes in the body get out of wack.....

But luckily in the this form of basti - the saline flush - because the salt water has high osmotic pressure, no water gets absorbed but instead flows straight through the intestinal system.

(Though I don't suffer from constipation, it is thought that this is a much healthier and natural way to move the bowels rather than laxatives for those who suffer from that.)

Anyway, thought it might be good to clarify for everyone.

Love and Light,

Babaly

quote:Originally posted by LittleTurtle

May I suggest that weekly flushes of this sort can be way over doing it. You can mess up your electrolytes for one thing, and you don't want to do that. The heart doesn't like it.