AYP Public Forum
AYP Public Forum => Jnana Yoga/Self-Inquiry - Advaita (Non-Duality) => Topic started by: Perej on April 13, 2012, 01:15:02 AM
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Hello everyone, I am new to this forum.
About 2 years ago now, I began to practice self-inquiry, the process as advocated by masters such as Ramana Maharshi and Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj.
After following the process for some time, I realized that I couldn't find a 'me', or a 'self'. This discovery led me into a state of depersonalization and derealization, whereby I feel like I am non-existant. I can no longer feel my emotions and live in a spaced out state of mind where completing daily tasks is much more difficult.
My memory is absolutely awful and I will often just completely forget what I need to be doing and other things.
I feel like I have died in a sense, and have no awareness of the present moment anymore. I feel completely detached from life and feel as if it is a dream that I will wake up out of any second. This frightens me and I experience some anxiety about this.
I have asked hundreds of questions on various forums all over the internet and this website I have decided to ask in now.
Has anyone experienced this? I believe it could all be coming from an emotional blockage, as even though I feel like I don't exist anymore in the ego sense, all my anger from the past and the energy of old self-hatred is still there.
Any ideas? Could it be kundalini or something?
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Welcome to the AYP forums Perej. [:)]
What you describe sounds like either the Witnessing phase or Discrimination phase.
Take a look at this lesson :
Lesson 327 – The Evolutionary Stages of Mind (http://www.aypsite.com/plus/327.html)
Keep going... it is only a phase, it will pass.
Thanks for sharing.[:)]
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Welcome Perej,
I wouldn't say memory is at fault, but more the ability to pin down such an experience in anything concrete is what is at a loss. It is hard to also anchor it to a time frame, since you are within the present moment always, and that center-point is always used as a reference for being able to sense changes occurring among external things, including being able to see your inner change (among phases - evolutionary stages of mind) by sensing a difference in the way your interaction with the world at one point in time compares to another. From within, there was no change, and it cannot be detected directly, but the center has shifted.
Something of the sort also occurred to me around the time I first started meditating where suddenly my feeling a certain way or another was no longer automatic and dependent on the situation and mood, but on a choice, which itself stopped almost any emotional reaction, leading me to naturally question in a similar way you are, 'what's wrong with me?' Later on, I started to enjoy the silence in meditation, almost as a new sense of being, standing outside the constant mental noise I was accustomed to before, which in turn gave way to seeing more silent layers of noise manifesting as the mind wandering endlessly following trails of emotion-loaded memories and fantasies.
Your description about lacking of present awareness I can relate to, though I don't call it that but instead a greater tendency to speculate on things to the point of losing track of time. I cannot, however, say I've ever felt depersonalized, derealized, non-existent, having died, anxiety about it, and instead find my greater presence in the moment to provide both the opportunity to "be here now" and to somewhat ponder off into almost anything.
Do see the link Shanti gave to lesson 327. I found it immensely helpful when I first came across it.
All the best.
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Welcome to AYP.
I think you are perfectly describing none relational self inquiry symptoms. I would drop any further self inquiry and begin Deep Meditation only in order to cultivate sufficient inner stillness.
A lot of what you are experiencing does happen anyway because the inquiry is continuous it interrupts the normal thought process. Instead of doing things automatically you have created a great degree of mindfulness which makes simple tasks and memory a little bit sticky.
Best cure is to laugh when you are struggling, the absurdity of not being able to consciously do things is only temporary. It's a bit like trying to re learn things after a brain injury, but it's still all there and you can carry on as before. Just relax and let it flow, if you get frustrated it just gets harder so chill out and giggle.
The anger etc is still there because of the none relational work, there just isn't sufficient stillness to let it evaporate, so, when you come to a period where the self inquiry ceases, then it all rushes back in like a tidal wave. Not all that pleasant.
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Hi Perej and welcome to the AYP Forums! [:)]
Here's my take on it....
To me, what you are experiencing is the result of an imbalanced approach to self inquiry and/or spiritual practice. The truth that there is "no self" needs to be balanced with the truth that "you" exist in a body, on the Earth. So, if I were you I would be asking the question; "How do I balance/reconcile these two seemingly opposing truths, that there is no "me" yet we *do* exist in a body in time and space?"
In my experience, balance is acheived by fully engaging with Life on all levels and using just the right amount of practice (a "witness" cultivating meditation like AYP Deep Meditation being the core of the practice) to keep purification and inner opening happening at a manageable level. For me, right now, this means only meditating once a day, for a very short period of time (15min max right now), and then going to work, doing the dishes, picking up dogsh*t, doing the grocery shopping, cooking, doing laundry, cleaning my home, spending time playing with my daughter, and doing all the other day to day stuff that needs doing. If there is not enough "regular activity" or if there is too much practicing, I end up somewhere similar to where you are... feeling disengaged and having difficulties staying present with whatever is happening in the moment.
Anyway, thought I would chime in here as your post is something I can easily relate to and have some experience with. Hope it helps in some way.
Love!
Carson [^]
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Hi Perej,
Welcome to the forum. Carson offers very straightforward, clear and practical advice. 'LIFE-LIVING' is part of who-what we are. As part of the play of manifestation it is intrinsic to our very nature. Yoga, inquiry have a number of stages. Early on as one experiences the witness, seemingly there is a separation from activity, a freeing of one's innate unbounded awareness from the customary self-identified levels of doing and control. As inquiry and realization deepen, life becomes an ever expanding deepening expression of our true love nature. Eventually, all separation melts away as we become part of the love. Here love and life are directly realized as intrinsic to who-what we are. The play of existence is lived naturally, joyfully.
Fear not. Every experience we have has deeper purpose and meaning. Carson's comments are right-on. A balanced practical approach to yoga that includes DM, self-pacing, grounding, engaging and living life is a must. In addition to DM, a simple heart practice could be of benefit to help balance out the mindfulness and depersonalization that has resulted from your inquiry practice. As you get re-connected to Heart, a pathway will be created that allows Source's love to help support your re-engagement with life and others. Source's Love is given freely every moment. The offer of help is always there. However, we need to learn how to once again accept and let it happen in our life. As you do, the love can work and help remove blockages on every level, physical, emotional, mental and spiritual.
If you are interested in a simple effective heart practice. One that I have found useful and integrated well with AYP, I recommend the book 'Smile to Your Heart Meditations: Simple Practices for Peace, Health and Spiritual Growth' by Irmansyah Effendi. It is available through Amazon. Additional information and free downloads are also available at http://www.open-your-heart.org.uk .
Wishing you the best. Much love to you.
Steve
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hello Perej
welcome to the forums[:)]....all the given answers are excellent....
it seems you are in non relational enquiry and Carson gave you very good tips to sail through this phase
in case you dont understand what is meant by relational/ non relational enquiry please check this lesson:
http://www.aypsite.com/plus/325.html
TGIY
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With all due respect folks, meditation got me into this mess, how on earth is it supposed to get me out? I feel completely dead inside and like my life will never be the same again. To be honest I think I will be like this forever. I hate it so much.
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Perej, your original post said you were practising self inquiry ? That isn't deep meditation. The trouble is you have learned to jump before you can walk and it's a very static state.
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I was practicing meditation frequently. Focusing on the breath and looking inwardly - is this not meditation?
I find now that I feel so uncomfortable sitting still because of how weird and spaced out I feel.
How should I meditate? How will this help?
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Hi Perej [:)]
To me, it sounds like you need to integrate all that has been realized. This means getting right into the nitty gritty of life.
As I mentioned in my previous post, balance, in my opinion, is achieved through finding the right amount of practice and balancing that with lots of regular daily activity. For you, at this point, it sounds like the right amount of practice is no practice. It can be like that sometimes, especially when we have overdone practices in the recent past. It's like going to the gym and working out for 24hrs straight..... when we wake up the next morning we're so sore from overworking ourselves that going to the gym again anytime soon is not even an option. In order to have an effective workout we need to do just the right amount of working out for our specific body, everyday. Not too much, not too little. And in the in-between time we go about our regular day to day business. It's the exact same with spiritual practice. Too much too fast and our body/mind can not handle it. Then we have to take time off, find balance again, and then slowly work ourselves back into a manageable routine.
So, all that said, I personally would recommend to you that you take some time off of all spiritual practices, spend as much time as you can getting lots of physical exercise, doing lots of normal day to day "non-spiritual" stuff, and when you are feeling "normal" again, begin considering having a short meditation practice every morning and see how you feel. If you begin to feel spaced out etc again, back off of the practices. If you start to notice more peace and abiding happiness, then continue on for a few months like that. If no negative symptoms are noticed after a few months you could then consider upping your meditation time or adding a second practice, giving things time to acclimatize and then re-evaluating.
Anyway, wishing you all the best, hope this all sorts itself out soon.
Love,
Carson [^]
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quote:
Originally posted by Perej
I was practicing meditation frequently. Focusing on the breath and looking inwardly - is this not meditation?
I find now that I feel so uncomfortable sitting still because of how weird and spaced out I feel.
How should I meditate? How will this help?
Hi Perej, the meditation at AYP is the inward repetition of the mantra 'I am' . It's in the lessons. It's different from breath meditation. The idea is develop a rising inner stillness through steady, twice daily practice. In effect it creates a stable ground for more aggressive practices such as Self Inquiry. It needs to be combined with self pacing and grounding as suggested by others.
The style of meditation that you have been practising hasn't developed that stability. It's like running before you have warmed up, instead of getting faster, instead you just end up with torn muscles..
This is the problem with none relational self inquiry when sufficient stability hasn't been attained, it results in the symptoms you are experiencing. This is the reason AYP only suggest that self inquiry is attempted only after sufficient stability has been created.
One of things AYP considers important is to self pace and ground whenever signs of overload are present.
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Ok, thanks everyone, much appreciated.
But I don't understand fully why I should meditate anymore. I have realized that I don't exist, is this not the end goal? I am not a seperate self..
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Hi Perej [:)]
quote:
Originally posted by Perej
But I don't understand fully why I should meditate anymore. I have realized that I don't exist, is this not the end goal?
Maybe for you, definitely not for me. [;)] For me, the goal is to be here, now. Always. In this, the goal is ever present and never ending. As they say, the journey is the destination.
Love!
Carson [^]
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I think the forum already sufficiently treated the specifics of the personal situation at hand and how the sight of this system is on it.Deep silence and meditation before self-inquiry will give the solution by this first book.
Why? It seems that the stable structure of this system, Kriyayoga and group is attracting giving you some relief and peace. Words alone cannot do it.
So it is onto you if you leave meditation for some time or use the book at best as audiobook for informing you how to do.This changes already your situation till you consider the practice proposed,
Axel
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quote:
Originally posted by Perej
Ok, thanks everyone, much appreciated.
But I don't understand fully why I should meditate anymore. I have realized that I don't exist, is this not the end goal? I am not a seperate self..
[:D]So many times.
You have this understanding intellectually, it's like understanding that a rocket can go up in space but you havent built the launch pad.
Self inquiry digs a dry well, the hole is there, but no water is present. That's how it feels doesn't it? You dig and dig and all that you achieved was a barren, dry hole and you are still dying for a drink. Your exhausted and disillusioned by the effort and you seem no nearer quenching your thirst. Down at the bottom of a dry well the everyday surface has now also become an effort to reach and the light is dimmer.
Following the AYP method the water comes up to meet you as you dig down. It's not so hard that way, everything is working with you.
Sometimes a few of us go off track and have begin self inquiry too early. We ignore the sage advice and start digging furiously using self inquiry to try and speed the process, but the water stays stubbornly out of reach for all those except the unusually ripe. So, many of us have experienced what you are going through. We meditate to gain our first mouthfuls of water , but we don't want to remain in the well, so we climb back to the surface and work to let the water fill right up to the surface, then we can drink at leisure.
Excuse the well and water story, but that's the best way I have of explaining it.[:I]
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quote:
I find now that I feel so uncomfortable sitting still because of how weird and spaced out I feel.
real self enquiry does not lead to feeling weird or spaced out...on the contrary it about being down to earth and at ease...
you are missing out something that is why you are uncomfortable, and this something is inner silence
inner silence can be cultivated only by meditation...that is why meditation should always be practiced even if one has "reached the goal"
currently it is better for you not to meditate cause you are overloaded...you need to integrate all your spiritual gains into daily life...go out and get active...forget about spiritual practices....
when things get calmer you can start meditating for a short time to gradually build up the missing ingredient of inner silence
as long as there is no inner silence there will be agitation like your case now
when inner silence is present enough you will feel totally grounded
that is in ayp we start with meditation then enquiry, not the other way around!
Love[:)]
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Welcome Perej [:)]
quote:
Originally posted by Perej
But I don't understand fully why I should meditate anymore. I have realized that I don't exist, is this not the end goal?
Are you suffering? If so, that would be one reason to meditate (at some point). I agree totally with Carson in this thread. You might need a "humanity break" and just live and enjoy your life without worrying about spiritual things or practices.
Realizing that you don't exist is only part of it. Many people realize this and it leaves them in a hopeless, despairing state. The other part of it is realizing that you are everything. Then there is no suffering, only Love flowing to all beings.
This one might be useful: Lesson 122 (http://www.aypsite.com/plus/122.html)
I wouldn't force practices if you aren't feeling it. If there's a sense of "should" around anything in life, then why do it?
Love <3
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Hi Perej,
Breathing meditation is quite a gentle form of meditation, but when practised intensely and when combined with hard-core forms of self-inquiry it can lead to excess purification symptoms. These symptoms can include becoming ungrounded, feeling spaced out, and feeling unbalanced. It sounds like you are suffering from all of these.
If I were you I would take a break from all spiritual practices for a while and concentrate on getting more grounded. Being active outdoors helps with this, interacting socially with others, taking long walks in the country, that sort of thing. Forget about the idea that you don't exist. Clearly you do, or you wouldn't be writing on this forum. [:)]
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quote:
Originally posted by Christi
Being active outdoors helps with this, interacting socially with others, taking long walks in the country, that sort of thing. Forget about the idea that you don't exist. Clearly you do, or you wouldn't be writing on this forum. [:)]
Ah, those are words of wisdom. To echo and expand upon walking in the country, let me suggest walking barefoot in the dirt, grass, sand, or whatever earthen element you have access to, so you can give yourSELF a little podiatric stimulation for those weary feet.
Also, let me affirm and celebrate the proclamation of the very wise CarsonZi: that the purpose of spiritual endeavors (for him, and me too) is not to annihilate, extinguish, eradicate, or kill the so-called ego-small-self. If anything, spiritual practice and living has only expanded and broke down barriers put up by this smaller sense of self, in my experience.
There's quite a few teachers that constantly portray ego as enemy (and some forum posters in here, as well [;)]), but the party line of AYP and Yogani does not buy into that extreme and lop-sided view at all. I highly recommend reading the following profound and delicious lesson, called The Transformation of Ego:
http://www.aypsite.com/plus/428.html
Godspeed, and by all means, remember to L-I-V-E!
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Thanks guys, appreciate all the responses, what a lovely forum.
Will the things you have suggested allow me to cleanse my repressed emotions? It feels like I have strongly supressed emotions in my body, but I can't connect them to a sense of self anymore so they are just sitting there, it's this horrible dark energy. I suppose Eckhart Tolle would call it the 'pain body' but his book did not help me one bit.
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Just takes time, bit like the hiatus on the grieving process it doesn't remain buried.
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Agreed - the repressed emotions will eventually come up in the process of purification when you are ready to return to meditation. no rush. This will all pass with time as your experience integrates. Meanwhile I concur with the suggestions made above, that you back off from spiritual practices, except maybe prayer, if you find that helpful, and engage in normal grounding activities of daily life such as walking outdoors. I would certainly forget about self-inquiry for now; whether or not you exist is really a moot point and realizing it has not done you a damn bit of good (digging the dry well and all). When you feel ready to resume spiritual practices I would start over with Deep Meditation, to establish the inner silence, and eventually add Spinal Breathing to address the emotions that are burdening you and do some housecleaning. One step at a time. All the best to you.
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Moderator note: Topic moved for better placement
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quote:
Originally posted by Radharani
Agreed - the repressed emotions will eventually come up in the process of purification when you are ready to return to meditation. no rush. This will all pass with time as your experience integrates. Meanwhile I concur with the suggestions made above, that you back off from spiritual practices, except maybe prayer, if you find that helpful, and engage in normal grounding activities of daily life such as walking outdoors. I would certainly forget about self-inquiry for now; whether or not you exist is really a moot point and realizing it has not done you a damn bit of good (digging the dry well and all). When you feel ready to resume spiritual practices I would start over with Deep Meditation, to establish the inner silence, and eventually add Spinal Breathing to address the emotions that are burdening you and do some housecleaning. One step at a time. All the best to you.
I just feel like meditation would make me feel more detached and more spaced out to be honest. What meditation should I do? What is deep meditation? Sorry for all the questions!
I can't even begin to explain how I feel really, I just feel like I'm not even here, like I'm going insane. I feel like i've lost my mind. I am seriously skeptical when someone says they have felt like this before, because trust me, this is life changing.
EDIT:- SORRY DOUBLE POST
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To avoid overwhelming with more direct lesson links, there's the "Start Lessons Here (http://www.aypsite.com/plus/10.html)" found on the left hand side of this page under the red "Key Lessons." If you want to jump ahead, there's the "Topic Index (http://www.aypsite.com/plus/TopicIndex.html)" which you can find after going to "AYP Home" in that same top-center menu bar.
Taking it from the top is generally helpful to put everything into context, and you'll come across deep meditation very early on.
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Perej
I have experienced exactly what you are feeling - many times. Where self inquiry, or excessive spiritual practice, takes you to a place where you feel totally "desolate". A state of bleak, dismal emptiness. When I get like this, I stop practices, the excessive desire to get somewhere else, and I just focus on doing stuff which is fun and pleasurable, and get lots of exercise.
There is one tool I can recommend to you. It is in my mind perhaps the only tool I have ever encountered that has brought real and lasting change into my felt perception of life - i.e. how present I feel in the moment, how free I am from emotional reactivity etc
It's called the Presence Process, by Michael Brown. It takes you deep into what you call your 'repressed emotions' and the emotional body, and teaches you how to deeply embrace and engage these emotions. It's rather unlike most self-help related to emotions as it has nothing to do with trying to control your emotions, "eliminating" negative emotions, or trying to choose "positive" emotions over negative ones. These are all control strategies of an emotionally immature mental body, which wants to control experiences, lording it over the emotional body, so it "feels good".
In fact, the process helps restore a neutral relationship with emotional energy (positive and negative emotions, without the mental label, are just energy, neither good or bad) which results in a transformational improvement in the emotional quality of all your experiences. It also brings a loving conclusion to emotional reactivity and suppressed emotions.
Reccomend checking it out - I've tried everything, byron katie, AYP, eckhart tolle, just about every self help book on the planet, NLP, energy healing, and so many different modalities.
In my view AYP is the ultimate "ascension/transcendence" practice for awakening to spiritual truth, transforming the neurobiology, bliss, ecstasy and ultimately enlightenment.
The Presence Process is the ultimate counter-practice for "descension/being in the Now/dealing with the immanent" - this is my practice for dealing with the nitty gritty, raw, emotional human issues of day to day life. It's a very grounding process and may help what you are going through.
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Hi Mr_Anderson.
Thanks very much for the recommendation for the presence process. Practicing the conscious breathing within it has made me realize there are some very real physical/emotional/psychological things going on with me at the moment. When breathing deeply and consciously the numbness starts breaking away and I begin to feel sick, tense, anxious, sad, emotional.
This is starting to make me feel human again, though it may be a long and traumatic process. Thank you.
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Hi Perej
quote:
Will the things you have suggested allow me to cleanse my repressed emotions? It feels like I have strongly supressed emotions in my body, but I can't connect them to a sense of self anymore so they are just sitting there, it's this horrible dark energy. I suppose Eckhart Tolle would call it the 'pain body' but his book did not help me one bit.
Stopping meditation and self-inquiry for now is a very sound approach. This is in fact exactly what life is showing you with regards to your symptoms.
We tend to forget that life is always bringing us what we need in order to grow clear. There is no exception to this rule.
Life does not go away and hide - not ever.
So whatever is here at all times, whether we feel detached or attached or sad or glad or whatever - what is being presented is always what we have to be with.
It is very difficult to go through what you are experiencing. Please be kind to yourself and stop any activity that make you feel worse. Go out in nature, or find your way of being in nature. Hug a tree, touch the sea, walk a trail, buy some flowers, visit a pet you like...or get one yourself.....see a forest......or whatever does it for you. Grounding will help immensly. Walk. Swim. Sing?
And make sure that you find something ....or someone....to laugh with.
Hold a warm cup of tea and enjoy the fact that you can drink it.
I would just like to add that meditation is not the only way to cultivate inner silence.
Inner silence does in fact not need cultivation per se. It is our recognition of the fact that there is something other than our habitual self within us that is important. When that is not felt, it does not mean it is not there. It is well to remember that.
Cultivation of that recognition can come about in many ways. The recognition of inner silence is cultivated when we act as life wants. And it is not always for us to decide, remember? Life decides. Right now - meditation and self inquiry is clearly not what it tells you to do more of. It is wise to not make the tool wiser than the life that applies it, no?
When listening to what life has to say we must start with the very immediate. So - if you feel dead, then this is truth for you. So life is needed. If you cannot feel it inside.....go see nature where it is so obvious at all times. Or even the sky outside your home. Or see people you know with warmth, kindness and intelligence. Or do something you know you will like that you have never done before but always wanted to.....you know....like when I had cancer, I used to ask myself every day (for years): What would I do today if I knew I was dying tomorrow? It always brought the most surprising .....and it was never what I originally thought it would be.....
When you ground and find balance again, life will release whatever emotions that need to come to your attention. Emotions are usually tied into all kinds of reactional chains. There is no need to go looking for knots. NO need to force this process. When life is ready, it will happen of its own accord. And then we deal with one knot at the time. The one that is right here. Just like you are now. Be glad not every turmoil there is comes up at once!
Natural is just fine. It is enough.
And thanks to life/you for coming all the way here to share.
All the best, and please keep in touch.
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bless fam
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Beautiful post Katrine.[:)]
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Hello everybody, hello perej,
About 6 months ago I had an experience which is almost word for word described by Perej, with the subsequent feeling of detachment:
quote:
Originally posted by Perej
Hello everyone, I am new to this forum.
About 2 years ago now, I began to practice self-inquiry, the process as advocated by masters such as Ramana Maharshi and Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj.
After following the process for some time, I realized that I couldn't find a 'me', or a 'self'. This discovery led me into a state of depersonalization and derealization, whereby I feel like I am non-existant. I can no longer feel my emotions and live in a spaced out state of mind where completing daily tasks is much more difficult.
My memory is absolutely awful and I will often just completely forget what I need to be doing and other things.
I feel like I have died in a sense, and have no awareness of the present moment anymore. I feel completely detached from life and feel as if it is a dream that I will wake up out of any second. This frightens me and I experience some anxiety about this.
I have asked hundreds of questions on various forums all over the internet and this website I have decided to ask in now.
Has anyone experienced this? I believe it could all be coming from an emotional blockage, as even though I feel like I don't exist anymore in the ego sense, all my anger from the past and the energy of old self-hatred is still there.
In my case the realization that there was no self was a happy one, and I felt like I was letting myself go into this realization, but after a few moments with this knowledge, I had a thought that if I let myself go, this somehow is going to end my marriage. This thought at the moment seemed so important that it was followed by a huge wave of panic, with me trying to escape from this state mentally. Ever since this experience, I feel like I can't feel, like I can't be in the moment, fear and anxiety are always with me and sometimes they are unbearable. I was hoping that this would pass, and I have had positive experiences that almost seem to take me over, but then I always hit a mental wall which I feel is impossible to break.
I have tried many things, meditations, yoga, the Presence Process, ayhuaska, but all to no avail. I still feel like I killed a big part of myself and there is nothing I can do to get it back..
And until I saw this perej's post i thought I may be the only one who has that.. It is such a relief to realize that this is not something unique to me....
Perej, your original post is almost 2 years old, could you tell me if you have found something that works? Everybody else, any new ideas?
Thank you all so much in advance,
Andrey
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Hi,
I would advise you to not worry much.
I do not know what it is that I experienced, maybe I am nowhere near what you experienced but I definitely think that there are similarities in our experiences.
You say that you have lost a big part of yourself, and that you can not feel... But if you can not feel where is the fear? Where is the anxiety? Where is the problem?
For me, those questions helped me to get a grip back, it took just a little bit of courage and persistence over a couple of days.
Hope this helps...
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Hello Derevyan,
Welcome to the forums!!! Stay grounded and this too shall pass. Just do the next thing that needs to be done-grocery shopping, cooking, work, cleaning,meeting up with friends. Don't think about it too much. Stay away from anything spiritual. Don't sit by yourself, even though you may prefer to. Make yourself do these things- walking, eating heavy diet, spending time with family, helping people in need, cleaning, laughing at yourself helps too[:I]
I went through this experience when pregnant with my first child (after receiving shaktipat unknowingly). Just stay with the emotions-don't try to block them or feed them. Nothing works, give it to your Istha (Check out these lessons on Ishta (chosen ideal) - 67, 68, 112, 220, 221, 338, 339, 340, 341, 342). I always visualize myself holding onto the feet of my Isthas with the emotions ( I know, very dramatic[:p] but always works). I now have two kids and I would say that I feel more integrated. My worldly responsibilities keep me grounded. Nothing more grounding than waking up several times at night and nursing [;)], keeping your calm when your toddler throws tantrums. Hope this helps and answers your questions, as I'm not very good at explaining things. Also, sorry if I went on a rant and not really answered your questions [:I].
Have you started AYP? If not, once things settle down, I would highly recommend it. I’ve been practicing AYP for over two years. It has changed my outlook in life.
Love,
Sunyata[:)]
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quote:
Originally posted by Perej
It feels like I have strongly supressed emotions in my body, but I can't connect them to a sense of self anymore so they are just sitting there, it's this horrible dark energy.
Coming in late (I bumped into this thread via a web search). Not sure if you're still reading, but I think I have an answer for you on this.
Stop trying to peel off the unwanted parts. The problem isn't in the peeling, per se, it's in the underlying assumption that beneath that stuff - beneath the "negativity" or whatever - lies some perfect core. There's no perfect core, it's a myth. You are nothing but a big mass of resistance to What Is....all the way down.
You're stuck in the mistaken idea that you need to winnow the bad parts from the good parts. Better to recognize that the whole damned thing needs to unclench. Wind shall blow through unimpeded. Less You, more Everything.
So don't cannily scheme to drop certain baggage from your burden. Don't even drop all your baggage. Drop the baggage and the bearer of that baggage. Atlas, it turns out, didn't need to hold it all up. He never did. It's all just fine on its own, as-is.
Two ways: 1. self inquiry to reach the conclusion I've just described, or else 2. just keep building an awareness of the futility of your effort to expunge this weight, and you may eventually reach a point of utter despondent despair, which naturally and organically leads to surrender (including surrender of the surrenderer). In other words, don't soothe your feelings of frustration. Anesthetization is not the answer. Stay right there, until you cultivate a lovely absolute despondence over the absolute futility of hoping to shine it all to a high buff or to get this or that spiritual result. The most beneficial declaration is "I give up!!"....preferably wailed while sobbing inconsolably.
If you experience surrender but feel that some Bad Stuff nonetheless remains, then surrendering was partial. That very distinction, and the perspective behind it, is exactly what needs to be let go of. Not the stuff. The stuff can stay. The stuff can always stay.
Added via editing:
Sigh, rereading, I see that the above reply was poorly focused to your actual statement (the part about the issue not connecting to sense of self; you're talking more about vestiges than struggle). I'll leave it, because it might be helpful to others....and also because it sets up a more well-targetted reply to you. Here goes: what remains isn't shreds of this or that, it's shreds of sense-of-self. Remember: It's always about perspective, not about stuff. When stuff attracts attention, that's perspective showing itself.
If this makes sense, then cool. If not, jump back up to the previous part of this posting, which is for you, after all. [:)]
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love your post Jim[3]
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Yes, it might well be helpful to others. And yes, the whole damned thing needs to unclench [:)] Thank you Jim
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quote:
the whole damned thing needs to unclench
....including the voice making those sorts of spiritual pronouncements! [:)]
(Otherwise, you're just rebranding the same old clenching with spiritual themes...that's what the vast majority of us seekers do!)
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Then I should be silence. Woops... pronouncements again [:D]
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Yup, there's always another layer of narration, isn't there? It's just another sticky wicket to rue while sobbing inconsolably (I'm a big fan of sobbing inconsolably!).
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dust1222
USA
1 Posts
Posted - Aug 18 2018 : 7:08:53 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Get a Link to this Reply Delete Reply
The positive result should have been U are a non-separated Self and that the apparently separated self is but a temporal cover that is a joyous gift used to further express and manifest Love compassion wisdom and service--Beauty. Instead the ego sense has persisted distorted. ask Who is in Loving Communion with the Divine treasure without need of thought? Feel that...
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Herb
Canada
111 Posts
Posted - Nov 17 2018 : 05:18:52 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Get a Link to this Reply Delete Reply
Hi Perej
You may have Depersonalization Disorder, which is a serious disease and requires professional treatment. You may think it was only caused by practising self-enquiry, but the true underlying cause needs to be dealt with by a professional. With this problem, self-enquiry will only make the situation worse. Please seek professional help by a qualified Phyciatrist. Once DD has been ruled out, the following advice may help you:
I too have been practising self-enquiry as taught by Ramana Maharshi for about the same length of time you have. Ramana encourages the ?annihilation? of the ego and this may be your problem. Before starting self-enquiry I had spent several decades carefully building up my self-esteem and self-confidence, which, if one is a giving and loving person and continues to love others and give of himself, is similar yet different than ego-building.
In my case(and I think in many other cases) the ego does not get annihilated. What has happened to me is that Ramana?s teachings have helped me to unidentify with my ego as who I am, to find the Self, and to identify with That. In doing this my ego has gradually become a ?servant? to the Self. I still continue to keep my self-esteem and self-confidence strong but now, in large part thanks to Ramana?s wisdom, I use the ego to serve the Self.
This probably sounds very confusing and, if so, I?m sorry that I haven?t yet explained this better. I will try explaining it again but with different words. The following is from a text that I recently sent my daughter, in reply to some of her questions about the nature of the ego, the higher self and whether it talks to us or guides us in some way:
?Our ego is the self-image we have, based on our childhood experiences, then developed throughout our life. Whenever someone tells us something good or bad about us and we buy into it, this contributes to our ego. But it(the ego) interferes with spiritual development.
Spiritual development is all about finding and identifying with God/Divine Consciousness. When we find God for real we realize that we are not an isolated individual but rather part of or one with the entire universe.
God is within us and we thus have a Divine Center or Core. This is our soul. When we experience or realize God within, we connect to who we really are, our true Self. This is our higher self.
At that point it starts to dawn on us that our ego interferes with our sense of God within. The ego is all about I, me, and mine. While God/Divine Consciousness is all about surrendering this egotistical sense of ourselves and learning to live as one with or identified with God. On any authentic spiritual journey we gradually stop living for selfish reasons and learn to live more and more in connection with our higher self, for this higher self only wants what is good for the entire universe.
God/Divine Consciousness is Love, selflessness and compassion. The ego is the opposite of that. Being identified with the ego makes us selfish and uncaring. The ego isolates us from others as we unconsciously try to get everything for ourselves, whereas God wants to use us to help mankind and bring mankind together.
The higher self doesn?t talk to us so much as influence us and draw or impel us to do and think about certain things, because the Self or God is not separate from us but within us and we can even become one with God. But never in an egotistical way.
Experiencing oneness with God is always about humbly surrendering our egos and giving God all the credit, honour and glory. This is why truly spiritual people are always humble, loving and compassionate.
The ego never goes completely away, but we are to unidentify with it through learning(during progressive spiritual experience) that God lives in us and we are thus children of God. The more we experience God within and identify with this Divine core or soul, the more the ego takes it?s rightful place as a servant. Feeding our ego gives us self confidence but we must be careful to use this confidence to do the work of our higher self in helping others and the entire world. This is what is meant by the ego being a servant of your higher self. The goal is to develop a healthy ego/self-esteem but to use it to serve your higher self.?
One other thing, while studying the teachings of Mooji, a competent student of Ramana, I found where he eloquently explaines that the experience of the Self includes a strong sense or feeling of ?I am? or ?I exsist!?* So, compared to that, your experience is way off and may be being negatively influenced by your own negativity and/or low self-esteem. Sorry if this seems like a personal attack, but it?s coming from a strong desire to help you. Again, I have practised self-enquiry as taught by Ramana as long as you have and want to help you get better or heal.
Looking at your posts here on this thread leads me to believe that you would benifit tremendously from a lot of work on your self-esteem and by taking a break from self-enquiry. Try doing all the positive things recommended by the other posts on this thread. Once you feel better and wish to persue your spirituality again, maybe try AYP or some other acceptable ?public? form like regular attendance at your chosen place of worship ie Church/Synagogue/Mosque/Temple. But whatever you try I think you better do it with the loving help and support of spiritually mature people.
*For Mooji?s comments on ?I exsist? see page 10, of ?Vaster Than Sky Greater Than Space?
Edited by - Herb on Nov 18 2018 08:08:59 AM